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**k9diabetes** · 05-22-2010, 12:19 PM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Hi Allison!

Welcome to you and Alfie and Skye.

You have been through a lot with Alfie! I would have argued that his original glucose reading of 18 mmol qualified him absolutely as a diabetic. What I'm hearing now from vets is that only cats have that instantaneous glucose response to stress. If a dog has high blood sugar, he's got diabetes. A dog who has already been diagnosed and is relying on injected insulin could have a vet-stress induced increase in blood sugar because he can't adjust to the stress. Hope that makes sense.

Heat could be causing Alfie to run lower blood sugar. Have you reduced his insulin dose?

Are you interested in learning to test blood sugar at home?

We have a handful of members here from the UK and all are testing at home, including a small Westie, Jessie, out in the far reachs of the countryside: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1528

Natalie

**ozzi** · 05-22-2010, 06:49 PM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Welcome Allison...you and Alfie have found the right place! We are all dealing with exactly the same thing as you, and you will find a lot of support here.

I was mostly struck by your statement "I cried every night before injecting him and felt so totally lost with it all and had no one to talk to about it and to be honest I still feel that way at times." I completely empathize with you. I felt the same way initially, but realized that giving the injections was keeping Ozzi as healthy as possible, and without them, quite frankly, he would die. Now that I have accepted that, injection time has become a special time for us, and honestly, it has brought us closer.

I feel the same way about home testing now. I was scared to death to home test and delayed trying for months. During this time, Ozzi became blind, and in many ways I blame myself for that since his blood sugar was too high for too long. But, I did learn to home test, and I am happier than ever now. If Ozzi has a hypo event as he did last month, I know that I can intervene immediately.

The point I'm trying to make is that in the end, injecting Alfie (or home testing if you learn to do that) hurts much less than not doing so. Our babies depend on us, and sometimes parents have to do difficult things in their kids' best interest, so I hope you re-think things and know that you are doing the right thing for Alfie and never cry about it again!! As far as friends and family not understanding, I get what you are saying, and my answer to them is a resounding "pfffft!" LOL

Keep up the great work you are doing with Alfie!
Kevin

**CarolW** · 05-22-2010, 07:56 PM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Hi Allison and Alfie - and Skye, too - all part of the family!

Your story REALLY tore at my heartstrings! What you've been through is really horrifying!

I'm not going to tell you not to cry; because sometimes, we just can't help it, but I firmly believe that after you've been here a short time, and been able to take advantage of what the people on this forum offer, you will be feeling infinitely better, and Alfie will be doing better, too.

When you've collected yourself, and are ready to do some more reading, here's an article that should be very helpful to you, assuming you decide you'd like to learn to test Alfie's glucose levels yourself. (It's an incredible assistance to us to be able to do that! - also, it's great for the dog!)

http://k9diabetes.com/monitoring.html

And here's a series of pages with pictures and detailed comments on the testing method using the "lip." (It's not really the LIP we prick for samples; it's the inner lining of the mouth, with resemblances to the cheek lining).

I'm so glad you joined us; I'm trusting your life with Alfie will shortly become a great deal easier than it's been so far!

By the way, I'm in Canada, and we too use the mmol/L measurements. Like you, I convert to mg/dL for the benefit of our many friends here from the U.S.

Here's a very hearty welcome to you and Alfie, and Skye too. I'll be here watching and cheering you on!

Sat, 22 May 2010 19:53:44 (PDT)

**diggydog** · 05-23-2010, 04:13 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Wow,

Thanks Natalie, Kevin & Carol - I must say I had a wee cry after reading your posts. I cant tell you how amazing it feels to know that I am not alone in all this and that you are all here to offer support!

I must say that when I inject Alfie now I dont tend to cry anymore but this is the hardest thing I have had to deal with. Alfie is the best wee dog tho and I can call him into the kitchen for his injections and he sits nicely and even gives me a wee kiss after it. I swear if he wasn't so good at getting his injections I dont know what I would do.

Its not standard for owners of diabetic pets to home test blood glucose which has always struck me as odd over here. I think it would help and be a HUGE benefit to me & Alf but without the support o my vet I would not even know where to start. Need to set aside some time to read up on here about it all i think. I know it means more work for me but if it helps to aviod more hypos then I am all for it. Nothing worse than seeing Alfie having a fit due to low blood sugar - I dont think I will ever get used to seeing that!!!
I am very lucky that I work as a duty manager in a great hotel that is dog friendly and get to bring Skye & Alfie to work with me so I am with him all day nearly everyday so I could potentially test his blood whenever I needed to. Not even sure how often it needs done?

The vet reduced his insulin yesterday due to his 2 hypos but what I dont understand is how the weather is affecting his blood sugar so dramatically???

Going to try get a photo of him for my profile so u can all see my baby

Allison

**CarolW** · 05-23-2010, 08:11 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Good morning, Allison - for you, good afternoon! I'm so pleased you can have Alfie at work with you - Skye, too. Usually if you do a glucose curve on the dog, it wll mean testing approximately every two hours; the closer to the "correct" appointed time, the easier it is to see and assess the trends in blood glucose.

If you want an eyeful, you can wend your way through some of Kumbi's charts (I love charts; they help me understand), as well as a few charts from other dogs; here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

Kumbi has NEVER - not once - in 3.5 years as a diabetic - had a hypo! He's come close to hypo level a couple of times: 8 June 2007, primarily. He also dropped too low for comfort on 14 May 2010:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgsgolow1.php

and the following day (same chart, though not quite as low as the previous day), and again he was uncomfortably low (the discomfort was MINE, not HIS!) ON 16 May (you can see that chart by using the NEXT button on the page that has the 14-15 May chart).

I have a different vet situation from yours. My vet encourages me to make decisions when that is the best thing to do. I keep my vet very closely posted. And it was my vet who suggested I learn to test Kumbi's glucose levels myself. Simply, because he stressed so very badly at the vet's. He'd bark all day, non-stop, poor fellow!

I've known of people whose vets at first thought their clients shouldn't meddle with testing glucose levels, but once the people DID do the testing, and reported to the vets, the vets sometimes began to appreciate it!

A feeling I get sometimes is that some vets are afraid we'll start being presumptuous, and thinking we know more than they do. (What's ALMOST funny is, sometimes something that gives that appearance actually DOES happen - sometimes, there are things we know that the vets don't.) Closer examination reveals that the things WE know are things we learn from our dogs, and each other. We don't learn anything like enough stuff that could in any way qualify us to be veterinarians!

We DO know our dogs; we live with them. So the trick is, a vet ALSO needs to be a good communicator. Vets vary a lot with that skill.

But we can always choose our paths, and most of those here on the forum choose to learn all we can, and to take an active part in caring for our dogs. What each of us chooses to learn varies, and we also make choices based on what we can manage at any particular time.

When it all becomes too much, we can take a breather! Sometimes that's the best approach. It's what lets us start up again and plunge back into the chilly waters of study!

Last night I had an uncomfortable situation with Kumbi, which I reported in his thread (which begins with the name "Kwali"). I was SO glad I'd been studying here on the forum. I felt panicky, but didn't BEHAVE in a panicky way; though I did come here and yell; haha! We seem to be past the crisis today, though I'll be watching. It was NOT a dangerous one; Kumbi's glucose levels were too HI, not too LO! (The meter says HI or LO when the readings are beyond its ken.)

I'm trusting you'll find this forum as helpful as I do!

Kumbi sends greetings to you, Alfie and Skye. Oh, yeah, I do, too!

Sun, 23 May 2010 08:11:29 (PDT)

**diggydog** · 05-23-2010, 08:52 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Morning Carol,

It is indeed afternoon here - so much so I have worked a 9hour shift and am finally home!!
I can't believe in 3.5years Kumbi has not had a hypo - thats amazing! Makes me more determind to test Alfie at home so it can be avoided as much as possible. I am lucky I am a light sleeper as when in full hypo Alfie falls over a lot and I heard him the other morning. I dread to think what would have happened if at 2am I didn't hear him untill my alarm at 6am.

My vet from when Alfie was first diagnosed left the practice about 6months ago so we now have a new vet who to be fair to her is really good in some respects. She called me this morning on a sunday on her day off to find out how Alfie was so she does really care but I think as its not normal here to home test its making her slightly uncomfortable. I think when I see her tomorrow I am going to get her to have a look on this forum about home monitoring and get started on it with Alfie as soon as I can.

I gave up my degree at uni to look after Alfie when he was first diagnosed as I needed to be with him and at the vets a LOT so I am totally committed to doing everything I possibly can to help him. I have spent a lot of time today reading through older posts (dont tell my manager lol) trying to understand more and see if I can get more information on the home testing stuff - it really does seem the way to go!

I hope you crisis with Kumbi has passed - they do worry us a lot at times dont they! Alfie, Skye and I are sending good thoughts to u both.

Alfie has not had a hypo so far today so all fingers and toes crossed it stays that way - now if I could test him myself I would know or not - think thats the hardest part with it all is the not knowing.

Time for a walk in the woods with the dogs and then back here to read some more about the different monitors and maybe even buy 1.

Hope all go's well with Kumbi for the rest of the day.

**k9diabetes** · 05-23-2010, 09:39 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Marg and her dog Lucy have been bringing along their very nice vet in Scotland along on not only home testing but on trying some different insulins:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596

Fortunately, since the supplies can all be bought without a prescription, you can do home testing even if you still have the vet do curves. I figure more information is always better.

Natalie

**Margaret Boyle** · 05-23-2010, 10:53 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Allison Alfie and Skye,

A very big welcome to you all, you have came to the right place for help they are a fantastic bunch of people and you will get plenty of support.

I have not been posting but I felt I had to send you a post.
I have read all about Alfie and Lucy is also on Burns High Oats. Has been for well over a year now.
I am not that far away from you I am in Lennoxtown (the Campsie Hills)

Your wee dog will be fine it has taken us a long time with Lucy to get her anywhere regulated and just like Alfie she had loads of infections---especially UTI's.

Now to get on to the subject of the vets, our vets in Scotland are a bit reluctant to let you do things, but I told my vet I wanted him to work with me not against me.
I have got a good vet Allison but I am a bit assertive when it comes to my wee gem Lucy. I knew the only way I was going to get a grip on all this was by doing things myself with the support of my vet.

I blood test Lucy myself and I am glad my vet was happy for me to do it,
he even tells me he trusts me completely with what I do now.

Allison by blood testing yourself you can save �70 for each curve they want to do, at the end of the day there is " no-one" who knows your dog more than you do.

By home testing you can know at any given time if their blood sugar is High or Low and this gives you peace of mind.

I, like Kevin can empathise with you at crying at the start, it is very frightening to know they are depending on us totally.
I knew if I did not inject Lucy she would die, and at the end of the day they are wee treasures who are very tolerant.

Alfie will get used to the blood testing and you will be surprised how quickly you get used to it (and Alfie).

My Allison I have not been posting much and I have written a novel

You will be fine Allison there is always someone who can answer your concerns and questions.
Work on your vet about home testing, and I know you will talk them round.

All the very best.

Hugs

Margaret

**CarolW** · 05-23-2010, 12:04 PM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Good evening (for you - late morning for me!), Allison! Kumbi says to Alfie, "Woof, I'll give you some of my glucose from last night!)"

Sounds as though your vet is, indeed, very caring. I know vets don't have spare time, but just in case, you might want to point your vet to your thread here!

And Margaret's and Lucy's!

And, of course, always welcome in Kumbi's thread!

Allison - next chance you get, I'd discuss THIS with your vet - any chance Alfie's hypos were related to the vial of Caninsulin? Caninsulin and Vetsulin are the same stuff. There could be some vials that have too much of this or that, or too little of it, too. But also, that was a pretty big dose for Alfie, I think, at least, by FORMER U.S. standards for Vetsulin. It's really nuts, for US - that recommendations for using Vetsulin and those for using Caninsulin should be any different, because they ARE the same insulin.

Here's a somewhat nutty description of the situation, when Intervet changed the recommended starting dose for Vetsulin - but NOT for Caninsulin!

http://www.coherentdog.org/#newsarea

The description is nutty because the SITUATION was nutty!

Don't worry if you don't understand those notes; I don't, either!

Allison, you remarked:

She called me this morning on a sunday on her day off to find out how Alfie was so she does really care but I think as its not normal here to home test its making her slightly uncomfortable.

Very well said, Allison. I think it's really hard for vets who aren't used to this, that, or the other thing, to allow us to do it. Or, for some things, to try it. So much depends on what sorts of previous experience the vet might have had.

There ARE things we can teach our vets, oddly enough! Having to do with what we Human Dog-Parents - their clients - might be capable of - and might usefully contribute when working out a program of care for the dog.

For any of us, anything we step out to do that isn't known to be tried and true - or that WE aren't familiar with - can be a bit scary. And there are, presumably, people who would test only to evade a vet's help at all - or, a vet may fear such a thing.

Of course, that's NOT why we who test do it! WE do it for our peace of mind, and to help our vets work out what it best for our dogs. I send my results to my vet by email.

Usually if we discuss the results, it's over the phone, or sometimes, if I take Kumbi in to the clinic, or drop by on my own.

Rarely, they send me email back.

Indeed, you are dedicated, to have given up a university degree to care for Alfie. You are great role model for any loving Human Dog-Parent who comes along. (Too bad you had to give up the degree idea; maybe you can recapture the opportunity later. Actually, you might be surprised at what opportunities can come along later in life, sez I, being well over 70.)

And about starting doses; of course, they are generally checked on by occasional monitoring, generally by doing a full glucose curve, of at least 12 hours. Also, I've seen Natalie remark in several places on the forum, that sometimes terriers require more insulin than some other breeds. In a way, that makes sense to me, because typically, they are easily-triggered Alert-Alarm dogs; that's part of their nature. Alerting-Alarming must, to some extent, raise stress hormone levels - cortisols, for instance - and these would slightly get in the way of insulin, maybe requiring more insulin to "get past" the stress-hormone barrier, so to speak.

Kumbi is doing fine today, or at least, so he appears; his morning numbers are okay - still a bit high. I'll report in his thread. Thanks for asking!

Looking forward to your next reports!

Sun, 23 May 2010 11:45:41 (PDT)

**diggydog** · 05-24-2010, 01:41 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Hi

Margaret thanks for your post. I know Lennoxtown - I get my hair cut in Strathblane so drive through Lennoxtown on my way!

Given your not that far away if you have the time a have a couple of questions for you.

What kind of monitor do you use and where did you get it and where to you take her blood from?
Also with regards to the Burns high oats - how much is Lucy being fed?
Alfie is 6.45kg and gets 75g split between 3meals. He gets 30g in the morning and evening but gets a wee snack of 20g late afternoon.

I was also thinking that it might be an idea if my vet spoke to your vet about the blood testing at home?

Carol - the vetsulin/caninsulin situation is totally crazy. I cant understand why nothing has been done over here about it all??? I am going to speak to my vet about later on today.
I am a great believer that in life things happen for a reason so maybe the university thing was not where I was meant to be in life at that time. All I know for sure is that Alfie & Skye come first and there is nothing I wouldn't do for them.

When Alfie was firsst diagnosed he was 16kg so a very fat wee boy and over the last 2years he has lost around 10kg so now weighs 6.45kg so his insulin requirements change all the time. We started off on 7units twice a day the very first day but he did not react very well to that so we then started on 1unit and slowly built him up to 6units twice a day then as he lost weight his insulin was decreased down to 3units x2.

My vet mentioned on saturday that Alfie is an unstable diabetic - I thought that for at least the last 6months if not longer Alfie had been what I thought was stable so maybe I am not understanding what that means exactly!

Hope Kumbi is doing better xx

**Margaret Boyle** · 05-24-2010, 04:15 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Hi Allison,

To answer all your questions.

I use a meter called ON Call it is a good wee meter. I did use the One Touch Ultra 2 which is a great meter I keep it if there is anything wrong with my ON Call.
I got it from Val Med on the internet the strips are half the price and only uses a tiny drop of blood.I will get the address for you.

I test Lucy on her dew pads up behind her front legs. I also use both lips.
She is no bother too test, it is nerve wracking at first but it is so easy once you get in to the way of it. It is only a small prick.

Lucy gets 40gr of Burns at breakfast and teatime and 10gr at 1pm. Total of 90gr.
She also gets low fat cottage cheese with each meal, she had lost some weight but is now putting some back on. At the moment she is getting 400 calories a day.

I also changed her insulin 7weeks ago to Humulin I (NPH) in the USA.

I think you will have problems changing her insulin as I had to persuade my vet. The vets do not use human insulins. She has been doing better on this
insulin as I did have problems with Caninsulin, she was going too low although Lucy has never had a Hypo since she was diagnosed (touch wood)
She was just going too low for comfort down at 3 & 4's.

Let me speak to my vet first Allison to find out if it would be ok for your vet to contact him!!!

Now Allison I will send you a private message with my phone number and you can phone me.

Hugs Margaret

**diggydog** · 05-24-2010, 07:49 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Well back from the vet.

Alfie had been on 2units of caninsulin since saturday rather than his normal 3units twice a day and his 11am bg reading was 5.2 mmol or around 96mg.
My vet gave me the choice of keeping him on 2 units or stopping his insulin all together and "see how he goes" she thinks that the insulin is keeping is weight too low and wants him to put on aroung 1kg. I have to phone in later to let h know what I have decided to do.
I felt I needed some more information before stopping his insulin - it seems like a rather extreme way to go about things. I would have thought increasing his food would have been a better option??????

Dont get me wrong no injections and no worry of hypo's sound like a dream for me but is that really the best option for Alfie?

I did manage to talk to her about home testing but she seems to think I would NEED an AlphaTrak - I said I would get some info for her on dogs being tested well with human monitors as the AlphaTrak is really expensive and if its not that much better than any others then I am inclined to go with something less expensive.

Margaret I will try and phone tomorrow night around 7ish if you might be in - I am working for the rest of the day today and I am likely to be really busy.

**Patty** · 05-24-2010, 11:13 AM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

Hi Allison and welcome to you!

I am just catching up on Alfie's history. I do want to say that I would not stop Alfie's insulin altogether. The theory that the insulin is keeping Alfie's weight too low honestly does not make sense to me.

Dogs are essentially Type 1 diabetics. The beta cells of the pancreas have been destroyed so they are no longer able to produce insulin of their own. We must supply it via injections in order for glucose to be moved from the bloodstream into the cells for nutrition. So by getting enough insulin the cells can actually utilize the food more efficiently for gaining weight.

Some owners describe their dog as very hungry and losing weight despite eating quite a bit when first diagnosed because the cells are not able to utilize the nutrition. Insulin is the key that unlocks the gate and allows the glucose to enter these cells.

I agree with you in that if you want to put weight on Alfie you would need to increase calories. This may require an adjustment of insulin however to match the increase in food.

I am glad you've made contact with Margaret on here. She's has a wealth of knowledge and experience with her Lucy.

Also, you don't need to buy an Alphatrak meter. The Alphatrak is calibrated for a dogs red blood cell but a human meter can be used just as easily. Because a dog's red blood cells are a different shape and size than a human's, most human meters will read lower than the dog's actual blood sugar. You can find out this difference by comparing the reading you get on your meter once you are able to test Alfie with the reading your vet gets on their lab machine.

I hope that helps! Again welcome to you.
Patty

**k9diabetes** · 05-24-2010, 09:25 PM

Re: Alfie's Story so far....

I don't understand how insulin would make him lose weight either. Only way I can think that might happen is the switch to WD, which is pretty low in calories so sometimes you don't feed enough of it.

To gain weight, I would increase the quantity of food and then see how much more insulin, if any, is needed. I usually increase 20% or so for gaining weight.

I'm so glad Margaret's helping you!

Natalie

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The Wee Dude Alfie earned his wings 23rd June, 2015

The Wee Dude Alfie earned his wings 23rd June, 2015

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