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  • Sweet Victoria

    Name: Victoria
    Breed: PWD
    Age: 11 ½ years young
    Weight: 55 lbs
    Diagnosed Diabetic: 12/26/11
    Type of Insulin: Humulin N (now Walmart) 12 units twice daily
    Diet: Homemade Chick, Barley, Lentils, Veggies & Chickpeas / 1 lb & ½ can W/D twice daily
    Testing: Urine only

    Here's our story – long and confusing but maybe someone can offer advice how to get this under control and what I may be doing wrong

    In early December 2011 we thought our girl was slowing down, becoming stubborn, perhaps even exhibiting dementia. We live in New England where ticks are prevalent and she has been bitten by many this past season. We do not use topical repellant, just not convinced that it would not poison her as well as the ticks so have become pros at tick removal. We brought her to a holistic vet to have her tested for lyme disease (snap test) and the results came back positive for lyme and anaplasmosis. The vet was not convinced that she truly had the disease and put off medicating with doxycycline only to do an exam and manipulate her hind quarters and also to start her on Adequan. This was 12/10/11. She needed three more doses of Adequan 7-10 days apart so went back on 12/20 for next dose. No real changes – just a little stiff but figured old age setting in. Christmas Eve she was acting off and for the first time did not want to eat or drink anything. She went off to another room while we were getting ready to leave – totally unlike our “Velcro” dog. We came back in a couple of hours to find our living room was like a small pond. She had leaked previously – first time diagnosed with urinary infection about a year earlier and more recently in October while on vacation & we assumed it was just being in a new place. The day after Christmas we got her to her regular vet first thing and did blood panels, and urine were down only to show BG at 476. Also discovered giardia so she was put on Panacur for ten days and 7 units Humulin N BID. She had lost 7 pounds in two weeks. We were told to feed 4 cans W/D daily along with probiotics. Not being able to afford 250.00/month to feed her in addition to all the other costs we started making our own approx 1/3 chick breast/ 1/3 pearl barley & 1/3 veggies, chickpeas & pumpkin. Only testing urine her numbers weren’t looking great and she was not gaining – she was also falling up and down the stairs – looked just awful. Really began to suspect that the tick borne diseases were compromising her health as well and with some support from others I advocated getting her put on doxycycline for what turned out to be one month 2 tablets BID. After about a week we noticed some improvement in her mobility and activity levels. Finished meds by end of January and all has been like a rollercoaster since.
    Her numbers via urine go from several days of negatives (no color change) to between 500-1000. Insulin raised twice since 9.5 units for about six weeks and then just last weekend things got bad, tested 650 BG at the vet, drinking quite a bit, a few accidents, goop in her eyes, first yellow/green, then after compresses with warm water, just goop, but constantly rubbing her eyes all over everything – even gets up in the middle of the night to do so. Vet tested for dry eye and said they were fine, recommended saline eye drops as needed. Her pattern is feeding and insulin around 7am & 7 pm, we are pretty consistent with that – vet just upped insulin to 12 units and increased her food 200 calories per day now about 1300 calories. Our mixture is pretty consistent, only the composition of veggies may change. She has a habit of waking around 11:30 pm to drink, rub eyes and bark to go out. Since vet implemented these changes numbers went down between 100 -250 and then several days negative only to be back up to 500+ the past two days. Also, we are very concerned that she is quite wobbly on her feet esp. when standing still. She can walk just fine – even run, but standing still is a challenge to where she frequently will topple over.

    If anyone has any suggestions as to diet & calories, insulin, how and where to take blood (we tried along with two vets and a tech who couldn’t do it in our presence) what type and size lancet, and to explain why when she was first diagnosed her BG was much lower than when treated with insulin. Also, does anyone have any idea whether Adequan or the tick borne disease could have compromised her pancreas. This whole thing is just way too strange the way it came about.

    I sometimes feel like I am fighting a losing battle and can’t get any control, as soon as things look good, no sooner do they look bad. If I were to plot her good and bad days it almost seems she starts out pretty well beginning of week and goes off the charts after Thursdays. I am open to any and all suggestions or questions. She is the best, most beautiful dog otherwise along with all of yours and I just want to keep her stable.

    Thank you for reading my very long post and for the info you have all posted for others. Hoping to be able to blood test soon.

    Amy & Victoria

  • #2
    Re: New to list - looking for advice

    Welcome to you and Amy! It sounds like you've been thru the course and back again! It can be SO hard when dealing with one illness let alone more than one like you have.

    It's great that you are advocating so well for Victoria! That one thing will likely make all the difference in getting her stable once again. I'm also glad that you are will to home test. We go on and on about it here but it is one of the best tools you will EVER find to help you help Victoria!

    Many folks here use the OneTouchUltra (or UltraOneTouch..can't remember which way) and love it. You can often times get a good deal on it at Amazon and get the strips thru there as well...just be sure about exp dates and unopened packages.

    As for lancets....many folks use the lancet devices but I think most just use the lancets by hand. Depending on where you end up testing...lip, callous, tail...will determine what size you use. I think 26 gauge is probably what most use. I use a 29 gauge on my pup's lip. (the larger the number, the smaller the needle) It's a lot of trial and error when you first start and can be frustrating but with practice and Victoria's patience...you'll get it. Some videos to check out... http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15 ...hope that link works...if not...main page of threads.

    Is she still on meds for any of her problems? Antibiotics are a known cause of problem blood glucose. It's very hard to regulate when their bodies are all mixed up due to an infection of whatever kind. You may be experiencing that now. Do you have any numbers? Any curves you can give us that the office has done for you?

    I know it seems all very confusing and frustrating and like you'll never get things back on track but you will! This is one of those things that takes time and since you obviously love Victoria...know you'll work on it! My thing is one day at a time...take a deep breath and am so glad you found us so all the folks here can help you! Hugs and welcome again!
    Shell and Hank (aka Mr. Pickypants) - now deceased (4/29/1999 - 12/4/2015) Cairn Terrier mix who was diagnosed 8/18/2011 and on .75 U Levemir 2Xday. Miss you little man!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New to list - looking for advice

      Hi, Amy and welcome to the forum! As Shellie said, you are fighting on multiple fronts at the same time. Our Ruffles was not ill until the diagnosis with diabetes, so I don't know much to tell you about all the situations you are facing. But there are many here who have years of experience and I'm certain they will chime in with suggestions and advice. Long posts are fine. In fact, the more information you can give, the better folks can make pertinent comments.

      We purchased all supplies at Wal-Mart for cost effectiveness and convenience. Used 26g lancets and ReliOn meter and strips. (Tested on the inner lip area most of the time.) Not the best meter, but will suffice for home testing. Others here use better meters and strips; I'm sure they will tell you about it. That is also the brand name of the insulin there. Feel free to do what is best for you and Victoria.

      Again, welcome to the group! Glad to have you with us.

      Mary
      Ruffles May 1997~~12/6/2010~~She was "a heartbeat at our feet"~~
      Izzy--BD unknown;~~ RIP 7/13/2013 ~~; she was a sweet Yorkie spirit and we miss her
      Bella--Yorkie rescue; BD 9/2013 +/-; RIP 5/2015
      Ruby--senior Yorkiepoo foster

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New to list - looking for advice

        hi an welcome to both of you

        as the others have said you are on multiple fronts and some of them maybe out of your control

        diabetes is not even with other problems it maybe possible to have some control over blood sugar which may improve everything else

        as you know home testing is really what you need to do there are to many variables to base dosing on just some spotty vet visits testing blood sugar

        it is possible that you may have overshot the dose raising the dose on numbers at the vet that may have been higher that day do to illness medication or possible rebounding from to much insulin but you do not know not enough information to draw a conclusion

        since you have a meter you must make it a priority to test no exceptions for you or your pup i went from the ear to the inner lip on jesse and began testing her in the first weak of dx because she was unstable and ime sure she would not make it without and i believe that is true from where we came from

        if your dogie is laid back as you say testing should not be a problem as i said testing the inner lip works well for jesse but we have used some lance devices that did not work well and finding what works for you you can try some dry runs with the lip role it up look at the canine tooth and take the lance device on it but dont activate begin a process but not actually attaining a sample this is just to get you two comfortable with the process

        once you get a sample and able to make a test you are on your way on managing this disease and the forum can help you with that when your able to do a curve at home and post it here it may take multiple curves to develop a pattern and quite a bit of testing at the beginning

        my jesse was very difficult to get control but we did discover a routine that worked for her and your baby can do the same
        Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
        Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New to list - looking for advice

          A list of videos and pics of home testing blood glucose (BG).

          http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html

          Mary
          Ruffles May 1997~~12/6/2010~~She was "a heartbeat at our feet"~~
          Izzy--BD unknown;~~ RIP 7/13/2013 ~~; she was a sweet Yorkie spirit and we miss her
          Bella--Yorkie rescue; BD 9/2013 +/-; RIP 5/2015
          Ruby--senior Yorkiepoo foster

          Comment


          • #6
            New to List - Victoria's last BG curve

            Thanks to those that responded. Victoria's last curve was done on 2/14/12, prior to her numbers going all over the place. Current stats:
            55 lb PWD, diag 12/26/11 12 u Humulin N BID Homecooked and W/D

            On Feb. 14th a curve was done at the vet as follows
            7:OO am meal + 9.5 units insulin
            8:27 am 237
            10:29 am 149
            1:18 pm 196
            3:20 pm 272
            5:24 pm 305

            Two weeks later her urine strips looked really bad, increased water intake, 40 oz from almost nothing per day( she stopped drinking water when we started on W/D and homecooked) and increased urination. Rushed to the vet last Saturday with BG of 658, said no infections, ultrasound looked good and blood work was fine aside from number related to the Giardia which I have yet to retest the stool. Vet inc dose from 9.5 to 12 units BID and also increased food about 6 oz (or 200+ cal per day). Now that I have done more reading I wonder if the increased dose is negated by the increase in food? Numbers started to fall back into place, went high again Thursday + Friday and seem slightly better yesterday - keep in mind I still am only able to urine test. From repeated practice with her - I don't think she will allow me to use her lips, ears not an option - so dew pad (?) or tail area - need more info on those and size of lancet to use on what was a 60 lb dog. Really want to put at least those 5 pounds back on her - just can't figure out how. With this high fiber diet she gives out more than she takes in, no diarrhea thank goodness. It seems that when I have tried to add egg or salmon for more calories and protein, her numbers go up - also when I add fish oil so I don't add any of this to diet anymore. This forum has been so helpful to realize that we are not alone and hopeful that someone in a very similar situation can provide some answers - many thanks
            Amy & Victoria

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New to List - Victoria's last BG curve

              Welcome!!! You've found the place to get help with ALL your questions!

              If you've read through some of the postings you'll see that most of us give 2 injections per day, 12 hours apart. So with her increase in insulin that would be 6u in the morning and 6 at night. Doing so would level off her numbers a little more nicely instead of getting such a big swing

              You're right though, an increase in food could mean an increase in insulin so it would balance out but you will notice a difference in her numbers giving 2 separate injections

              As far as testing, does she have an elbow callus?? I test my little Tiggy on the base of the tail, but with my other dog, ( not diabetic) I use her elbow callus when I'm trying to compare different meters. Just rub the callus a little to get the blood circulating and use a 26guage lancet. That size would work well for either the callus or the tail. The callus is REALLY easy to get a sample from, and they don't even realize what you're doing since it obviously isn't that sensitive! I wish smaller dogs had callus's!!! It woul be soooo much easier

              Sandy

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New to list - looking for advice

                Hi Amy and welcome to you and Victoria!

                I do wonder what her blood sugar is doing through all of this. It could be that she's initially responding to the dose increase then leveling out and needing more. Or, she could be rebounding as the dose settles in. http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/somogyi.htm This happens when blood sugar either drops too low at some point or when there's a rapid drop in blood sugar and the body's protective mechanisms kick in.

                Has the vet done a full curve that you could post here? or just spot checks?

                I agree home testing would really help Victoria. I like the AccuChek softclix lancets for the lip area. Others use the Relion 26 gauge for thicker skinned areas. It took me several weeks to learn where my dog's "sweet spot" was for testing. She just didn't seem to have any blood to give up until we discovered the 'lip stick.'

                I think you do have your hands full with her immune system responding to the various issues going on, but I wouldn't think they directly compromised her pancreas unless she was on steroids for a time.

                Again, welcome to you!
                Patty
                Patty and Ali 13.5yrs 47lbs diagnosed May '08 Ali earned her wings October 27, 2012, 4 months after diagnosis of a meningioma ~ Time is precious ~

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New to List - Victoria's last BG curve

                  Originally posted by cjbsuzee View Post
                  Thanks to those that responded. Victoria's last curve was done on 2/14/12, prior to her numbers going all over the place. Current stats:
                  55 lb PWD, diag 12/26/11 12 u Humulin N BID Homecooked and W/D

                  On Feb. 14th a curve was done at the vet as follows
                  7:OO am meal + 9.5 units insulin
                  8:27 am 237
                  10:29 am 149
                  1:18 pm 196
                  3:20 pm 272
                  5:24 pm 305

                  Two weeks later her urine strips looked really bad, increased water intake, 40 oz from almost nothing per day( she stopped drinking water when we started on W/D and homecooked) and increased urination. Rushed to the vet last Saturday with BG of 658, said no infections, ultrasound looked good and blood work was fine aside from number related to the Giardia which I have yet to retest the stool. Vet inc dose from 9.5 to 12 units BID and also increased food about 6 oz (or 200+ cal per day). Now that I have done more reading I wonder if the increased dose is negated by the increase in food? Numbers started to fall back into place, went high again Thursday + Friday and seem slightly better yesterday - keep in mind I still am only able to urine test. From repeated practice with her - I don't think she will allow me to use her lips, ears not an option - so dew pad (?) or tail area - need more info on those and size of lancet to use on what was a 60 lb dog. Really want to put at least those 5 pounds back on her - just can't figure out how. With this high fiber diet she gives out more than she takes in, no diarrhea thank goodness. It seems that when I have tried to add egg or salmon for more calories and protein, her numbers go up - also when I add fish oil so I don't add any of this to diet anymore. This forum has been so helpful to realize that we are not alone and hopeful that someone in a very similar situation can provide some answers - many thanks
                  Amy & Victoria
                  Amy,
                  I just saw your post on Victoria's numbers and merged your threads together so everything is in one place.

                  It does become difficult to know whether the increase in blood sugar is due to the increase in food or the 2 1/2 unit increase in insulin. That's quite a bit even with the food increase. I would advocate for another curve to see how well the food and insulin are matching up.

                  I was also going to suggest trying an elbow callus if she has one. The carpal pad would be another possibility.

                  Patty
                  Patty and Ali 13.5yrs 47lbs diagnosed May '08 Ali earned her wings October 27, 2012, 4 months after diagnosis of a meningioma ~ Time is precious ~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trouble with Victoria's eyes - so very worried

                    I have been struggling with regulating glucose levels still only urine testing and now at 12 units twice daily of Humulin N for our 55 lb PWD, strips are coming back negative or close to at AM fast and late afternoon. My greater problem is her eyes - several trips to the vet, repeated exam fees, triple antibiotic ointment and they still look awful. Started out goopy, antibiotic ointment just made them go haywire, started to just use Refresh Celluvisc per vet's original suggestion, and now red with third lid up good part of the time. The vet did the test for tear production and that is not a factor in this. I don't know if her bout with tick borne disease could be affecting her eyes, allergies or just the onset of diabetes. She has been rubbing like crazy on everything she comes in contact with - we finally put one of those awful collars on her head until she falls asleep to prevent further damage. I can't afford to do much more and she could never again undergo anesthesia at this point (almost 12 yrs). She was diagnosed diabetic just after Christmas but had a similar problem with eyes last year in April where she scratched her cornea - question being was she rubbing because it was scratched or did the rubbing do the damage. Anyone have similar issues or any suggestions? I am at the point that I am afraid to look at her eyes in the morning - I am just so afraid of what I am going to see. Also, anyone have experience in treating a diabetic dog for Lyme or other tick borne illnesses. It may be that my original course of 4 weeks of doxycycline was not long enough and it has been recommended that I do 8 weeks of 250 mg twice daily. Just doing the first four weeks was brutal with trying to regulate her and deal with nausea, don't know how eight weeks would work out ?
                    Thanks so much to all of you on this list - this has not been easy for any of us, but at least it's wonderful to have you all out there.

                    Amy & Victoria

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Trouble with Victoria's eyes - so very worried

                      Amy,
                      I would recommend finding an ophthalmologist to look at her eyes. http://www.acvo.org/new/public/searc..._location1.asp It may save you money in the long run because he/she could pinpoint the issue and address it faster that a GP vet might.
                      Patty and Ali 13.5yrs 47lbs diagnosed May '08 Ali earned her wings October 27, 2012, 4 months after diagnosis of a meningioma ~ Time is precious ~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Trouble with Victoria's eyes - so very worried

                        I agree with Patty that the best investment would be an appt with a veterinary ophthalmologist.

                        The difference between what they can do and a GP vet can do is huge - in my experience, one of the largest differences in terms of skill set between a general practitioner and a specialist.

                        Cataracts are common with diabetes and can be very inflammatory. She could also have another ulcer and her rubbing and scratching at it is making it worse. And some dogs are prone to corneal ulcers. Our dog had a defect in his corneas that meant that they did not cement well and were very slow to heal.

                        Our dog also was allergic to the commonly used antibiotic eye ointment because it contains neomycin, which a lot of dogs are allergic to.

                        If that's part of Victoria's problem, there are others that can be used that won't cause an allergy.

                        Most eye conditions are very painful so it is important for someone knowledgeable to get to the bottom of what's happening with her eyes and a specialist should be able to identify the problem fairly quickly.

                        Natalie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Update on Victoria's Eyes

                          Thank you for your input on Victoria's eyes. Did see an ophthalmologist this week and was told it was allergic conjunctivitis. Given drops and recheck in a month. She had a bad reaction to one of the drops so now on only one, tacrolimus. I am wondering if this could be a food allergy since diagnosed at Christmas her entire diet has changed. Anyone have any problems with the following,: Hills W/D canned, barley, lentils, canned pumpkin, chickpeas, chicken, green beans or broccoli relating to any allergic episodes?
                          Just when I started to think we were back on track and all was going well, her urine strip was way up tonight after 2 1/2 weeks of near negatives. It makes me sick to think we are having trouble regulating again. It seems that whenever someone asks how she is doing and I have a good report, she immediately does an about face. We haven't changed anything that I know of, I am at such a loss to know what to do next.
                          Thanks for listening.
                          Amy & Victoria

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Update on Victoria's Eyes

                            We generally suggest that you ever so quietly whisper any good news you have about your dog... sometimes they don't hear it and you don't have to suffer the consequences!

                            Barley seemed to be an allergen for Chris, along with soy. He never had any problems with meats or corn or rice. For a long time we fed him California Natural canned food because it was a simple food - meat, rice, vitamins and minerals.

                            There are quite a few "simple" foods offered now with a single protein source and novel vegetable/grain so if it turns out to be the food you can probably find something that will work.

                            Natalie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Update on Victoria's Eyes

                              We have several dogs on here who are restricted as to diet due to allergies. You may want to try one of those type diets..limited ingredients. There are some very good brands that have those. It's possible that the allergies are for things like dust or grasses and have just now become active. It can take time...sometimes years for a sensitivity to develop. Glad you checked with the eye doc...I'm about to make an appointment for Hank, too. Cataracts, blah.
                              Shell and Hank (aka Mr. Pickypants) - now deceased (4/29/1999 - 12/4/2015) Cairn Terrier mix who was diagnosed 8/18/2011 and on .75 U Levemir 2Xday. Miss you little man!

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