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  #1  
Old 03-10-2018, 02:41 PM
CathCasc CathCasc is offline
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Location: Budd Lake, NJ
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Default Annie's #s are too high

Annie, my 13 yr old 14 lb Maltese w/ right side heart disease and diabetes...the Vet believes she has Cushing's but we didn't run the tests to confirm. She has all the symptoms he said, including the insulin resistance.

We started with Novalin N 2x/day in January but it had no effect after 2 weeks and increasing the dosage after one week.

We moved onto Vetsulin 2x/day starting at 2 units and increased it every week until 9 units (and that's where we are for the past 2 weeks). Her numbers barely changed. She is no longer in DKA since switching to Vetsulin. (I check her urine often with Bayer Reagent strips.)

She eats a cup of Hills W/D kibble mixed with W/D wet along with a scrambled egg at 6:am & Hills W/D kibble mixed with W/D wet along with Real Meat dehydrated Chicken sprinkled on top at 6:00 pm and is on 9 units of insulin 2x/day, right after she eats. She has an excellent appetite but isn't starving like she was when her numbers were in the 600s.

Her water consumption and "output" is still way more than it should be but has noticeably improved since Vetsulin. (We use Prevail male guards Maximum Absorbency and they're saturated after 8 hours.)

I want to mention also her alertness and activity has noticeably increased and her breathing has dramatically improved, she no longer pants since being on Vetsulin.

Her Saturday noon BG checks at the vet's office have been in the 500s for weeks.
He was unavailable for the past two weeks so I've been closely monitoring her, and did a curve today.
(I'm using AlphaTrak w/ AT strips... meter tested with Control Solution with every new package of strips)

Here are her #s:
2/22 5:30 am 464
2/26 5:30 am 405
2/27 4:00 pm 525
2/29 6:00 am 451
3/5 4:00 pm 411
3/8 11:00 am 670
4:00 pm 577
3/9 4:00 pm 492
3/10 5:30 am 556
9:00 am 526
12:30 pm 636
3:30 pm 575
5:30 655
-I used another strip and got "HI" so I put in yet another strip and got
632

What are your thoughts? Should her insulin be increased?

Last edited by CathCasc; 03-10-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2018, 05:15 PM
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k9diabetes k9diabetes is offline
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Default Re: Annie's #s are too high

Yes, I would increase her insulin dose. If she in fact has Cushing's disease, she will need a larger than normal dose of insulin. And if her blood sugar has been this high for weeks, she's also likely somewhat resistant to the effects of insulin from that alone.

I have seen a few dogs over the years who just needed extra large doses of insulin. Officially, she's not yet at the definition of insulin resistance - 1 unit per pound and still high blood sugar. She may get there or she may just need a larger than average dose.

A few terriers in the past weighed about 24 pounds and needed 21 units of insulin per injection.

So there's room to increase the dose and hopefully break through some general resistance and see some more significant improvement.

Natalie
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2018, 06:05 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Annie's #s are too high

You may want to sign up on our sister site k-9 cushings . They maybe able to help with understanding the process and what to look for . miss diagnosis can occur with unregulated diabetic dogs . Even symptoms can be similar with unregulated dogs and cushings dogs. A reason vets turn to possible diagnosis of cushings as an answer to insulin resistance

you do want to do your homework before starting medications
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15.5 years old - 10 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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Old 03-11-2018, 05:57 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: Annie's #s are too high

Looks like an insulin increase is needed.
Have you had thyroid checked, or anything else that could be causing insulin resistance?
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #5  
Old 03-11-2018, 08:08 AM
Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Annie's #s are too high

hello and welcome to you and Annie

what I can see is Annie might be eating too much food and different meals twice a day.

I.d only feed the same morning food at night 6pm to make food intake the same take out the dehydrated chicken it raises blood sugar.

also check the WD dryfood feed guide.
for a 15 lb dog the recommended amount is 1 1/3 cups of dry Annie,s getting twice the recommended amount.

I,d try this for a week a see if her numbers come down.
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Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017

Last edited by Riliey and Mo; 03-11-2018 at 08:11 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2018, 02:36 PM
CathCasc CathCasc is offline
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Default needles/syringe Q?

My 14lb Maltese was diagnosed with Diabetes in January. She is on 32u (2x/day) of Vetsulin (U40 insulin). To keep her BG in the low 100s I've increased her insulin weekly by 1 unit. (I test her at least 1x/wk.) Her BG has been about 130-150 for months now. In a few weeks we will have maxed the capacity of the u40 needles. I don't want to inject her 2x in the morning and 2x at night. Is there a 28g or 29g needle in existence that has a larger capacity than 40u or 100cc? Thanx!!

She eats Hills Rx W/D 1/2 c in a.m. & 1/2 c p.m. No treats. Scrambled egg w/ breakfast.

PS- The vet thinks she may have Cushing's, too, which is causing the insulin resistance.
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:20 PM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: needles/syringe Q?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathCasc View Post
My 14lb Maltese was diagnosed with Diabetes in January. She is on 32u (2x/day) of Vetsulin (U40 insulin). To keep her BG in the low 100s I've increased her insulin weekly by 1 unit. (I test her at least 1x/wk.) Her BG has been about 130-150 for months now. In a few weeks we will have maxed the capacity of the u40 needles. I don't want to inject her 2x in the morning and 2x at night. Is there a 28g or 29g needle in existence that has a larger capacity than 40u or 100cc? Thanx!!

She eats Hills Rx W/D 1/2 c in a.m. & 1/2 c p.m. No treats. Scrambled egg w/ breakfast.

PS- The vet thinks she may have Cushing's, too, which is causing the insulin resistance.
32 units of Vetsulin is an incredibly high dose for a 14lb dog. Please tell us more on how you arrived at this dose. If she has been about 130-150 for months, there would be no need to increase insulin.

Do you do a 12 hour curve before increases?
__________________
Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2018, 07:30 AM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: needles/syringe Q?

That is an insane amount of insulin, even if she is a bit resistant. Something seems wrong here. You sure you're using the correct syringes?

And like Mike indicated, 130-150 is pretty good.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2018, 01:07 PM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: needles/syringe Q?

You are only getting 6 days out of a full bottle of Vetsulin?

400 units per bottle of Vetsulin divided by 64 units per day = 6.25 days. As Raysaint asked, are you using U-40, or U-100 syringes?

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:50 PM
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Raysaint Raysaint is offline
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Default Re: needles/syringe Q?

I looked at a syringe conversion chart, and if you draw up 32 units of Vetsulin in a U-100 syringe, it equates to about 13 units of Vetsulin in a proper U-40 syringe.

http://www.petdiabetes.com/pdorg/u40...htm#Conversion

So if you're using U-100, you're giving your dog almost 1 unit per lb.
__________________
Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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