Scooter's cataract

[Raysaint]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

As Judi said, this can take a while, and there's no imminent danger. An increase in dose doesn't bring instant results.

My dog has been 7 months of getting there, and then a setback, then more time to try again, then something else. Frustrating, you bet. But you eventually get there and learn more along the way.

Patience is a virtue, and no more so than with regulating a dog. Worse thing you can do is have set expectations, because you'll be disappointed.

Avoid the mistakes I made, and stay a consistent course, and don't over react to every little surprise or unexpected number.

[Scooterspal]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

Thanks for the help. I will never give up on Scooter. Just worried about him.

Glad to know there are others who have been through it and are willing to share. My vet is great but being an internist at a large 60 employee practice, his time is spread thin.

[Scooterspal]

Ideas for simple meals?

In my quest to get a handle on my dogs diabetes and his raising BC levels I did some reading on how diet is key to managing this disease as much as insulin is... maybe more so.

This is not news to you folks, I'm sure. Anyway, as much as possible and for someone who does not know how to cook, I want to get Scooter off his packaged food and on to better, fresher meals.

What I've learned:

-Complex carbohydrates are important for diabetics

-Dry kibble over moist as the wetter the faster it metabolizes causing BC spikes

-High protein, meat based meals

So I'm on a quest for simple meals that meet these requirements. Last night I made Scooter a meal with freshed cooked, low sugar pasta, broiled chicken and dry "old fashion" Oatmeal. He loved it. Who wouldn't.

I'd be interested in ideas for similar simple to make meals others are having good luck with. Especially interested in if you are using beans and which ones your dog will eat.

[amydunn19]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

Keep in mind, too, that vets speak in general terms and what you research may also - it may be the standard for some book , but every dog has their own set of circumstances and dogs metabolize differently. True regulation is usually a longer road than most anticipate - occasionally someone will come along and it will all just be easy but that is not the norm. It is a learning process, too, so look at it as your advanced degree in diabetic parenting.

Just stay the course, be calm but vigilant, always consistent, not reactionary to the bumps in the road. I know it is so much easier said than done. There is always someone here to talk you off the ledge - we have all been there multiple times. Patience is the hardest thing because you just want to fix them and make it better. You will get there. You are doing great!

[amydunn19]

Re: Ideas for simple meals?

I understand you wanting to get Scooter the best food possible, it really is important to be consistent with having an exact repeatable meal every time. If not exact, it should be close. That is the advantage of the commercial diets. Once you tweak them to work with the insulin, they have the same calories, fat, fiber, and protein every time, and that will keep him regulated.

Varying his meals is not gonna help with your goal. Not that you shouldn't home cook(I never could - Maggie hated it) but you need to make it consistent every meal. Some of those who home cook can help you with that.

[jesse girl]

Re: Ideas for simple meals?

jesse eats a homemade diet dont know if its the best for a diabetic dog because she isnt the most consistent diabetic but she wasnt on commercial diet either

she has raw beef heart grounded and vegetables grinned up in a food processor
canned mackerel , cooked yams , cooked pinto beans , hard boiled eggs and a sprinkle on top of yeast flakes and she loves her dinner thats one thing i can say . i do grind up her egg shells in a coffee grinder to supply some calcium with the meat

i did give her supplements but stopped sometime ago

[Raysaint]

Re: Ideas for simple meals?

Myself, being diabetic and from what I've learned about dogs, high protein may not be the best. Protein can be hard on the kidneys, and some have even said protein can raise their dog's sugar. Like most things, moderation is generally safer.
The food I feed is moderate protein but still a bit higher than my vet suggested.

Wet food may metabolize a bit faster (not convinced of that), but it's not as processed as kibble so it retains more of the nutrients. The closer to fresh, the more nutritious.

[Scooterspal]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

I'm fairly certain Scooter has Cushings disease, as well.

His levels have been way up for the last several days now. Fasting / wake up has been over 600. Today I tested him every hour from the time he got up until he went to bed. It was "hi", meaning over 600 on this meter, all day. I have meter testing solution. The meter is accurate.

The internist had me increase his dose from 4 units to 5 units 2X / day last week.
I'm now up to 6, on my own, with no results at all.

From what I have read, just getting into this now, Cushings causes insulin resistance. He tested borderline thyroid levels on his blood work three weeks ago. I think he has now gone over that clift.

My last dog, a Sheltie, died from Cishings. That was 15 years ago. No good meds for it back then. It was a terrible thing to watch.

Now, again.

[jesse girl]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

thats a bit odd you went from insulin having a dramatic affect lowering the numbers to resistance

you might want to join our sister site k9 cushings

[amydunn19]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

Scooter, at 20 lbs, hasn't reached a dose that indicates resistance yet. Did I read you have changed his food recently? Have you added or changed anything - food, treats, routine, insulin, etc ? Also, has he been checked for infections - UTI, teeth, skin, ear - all cause sudden high numbers.

You might look at the thyroid element before Cushings. The only reason I say that is that uncontrolled diabetes acts like Cushings and even yields false positive Cushings tests. Does he physically look like a Cushings dog? Pot belly, thin hair, ravenous appetite? It would be helpful to talk to the folks at k9 Cushings - they know everything and more about the disease.

[Scooterspal]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

Yes, for one day I tried cooking his meals. Made him pasta with chicken and oatmeal. Then read replies to my posting and was told this was a bad idea. Honestly, I'm not a cook and could not have kept that up. Went back to his regular food.

Does he look like a Cushings dog, no. Neither did my Sheltie. No outward signs unti the very last two days when she just went to pot but blood tests showed it was present for months before.

There was some mention he "might" have Cushings by the vet several weeks ago but "not there yet". He also was normal BC less than a month before going over 500. I have the CBC that shows that.

Don't know what the answer is. Could be infection. Suspected urinary when he started drinking constantly. That vet visit yielded diabetes. Maybe more, now.

I wonder if all this recent needle poking is causing issues. I use a new syringe for every injection but use that same needle to then prick him mid day to test. Then toss it. He has one nickel sized, inflamed sore on his upper back near where the walking harness rubs. Never healed over completely. Been there for years. Some scabs. I get his blood from there. Prick a new clean spot and get just enough for meter. I have also compared with blood from his tail area and it is the same, so that spot is good. Also, same place for all his tests... even the early low BC ones. The fact that he is back to drinking a lot, which went away for that one week of low numbers, means something.

Ears have flared up mildly from time to time. His lay down so can harbor dirt and moisture. Have ointment for that. Eyes often blood shot but not sure if cause or effect. Have drops for those. Skin has been a constant issue with various bumps and sores. Was given two oral antibiotics about five or six weeks ago before all this. That treatment competed. Some new sores have appeared but nothing major.

Some toes swollen a bit. He picks at them when in the car. Swollen toes can indicate cancer, I've read.

Assume another CBC will reveal all.

Will do another hourly BC test today to see what shows up. Will need something more before I call vet to see how to proceed.

I'm up to 6 units 2x a day. I can try going to 7. I know lower levels (below 100) are cause for great concern. He is no where near that so going up a point should not get me there. I assume, regardless the cause, if levels are too high more insulin is necessary.

Does that seem plausible?

[Raysaint]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

Stay on 6 units for a couple more days. An increase after that would be normal. As the pancreas continues to stop working (if it still was a bit), increases may be needed.

There were times when I thought I was near the final dose with my dog, numbers were getting better, then wham, high numbers. So I just increased again and let that play out for a while, and things never truly settled down until now, and I still get surprises on some fasting readings.

[CraigM]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

My Annie had ear problems for years. They would stink, and cause her to shake her head wildly. We would use Zymox ear treatment and things would be OK for another month or two. She also had a pinkish eye that various eye drops just didn’t help much. This past Spring I started giving her a Benedry which seemed to help. Who knows😟

Craig

[Scooterspal]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

False alarm? Maybe, I don't know. I hate this.

Now today we are back on track. His levels, as follows with 6 units:

Wake up / fasting : 325
After walk, before food : 251
1 hours after feeding/shot : 366
3 hours after feeding/shot : 338
5 hours after feeding/shot : 286
6 hours after feeding/shot : 191 (peak insulin affect?)

I guess this is what to expect as you all seem to suggest. No rhyme or reason for it that I can see.

Will check again after evening walk. Would like to try 7 units in the AM and monitor same as today. I want him down to 150 at hour six after insulin. Maybe go another day with 6?

Thanks for your support. Could not be doing this without your help. Scooter says thank you, too.

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Is there a number that equals "stabilized"?

OK. So with those numbers, we know that the insulin is working and there is no insulin resistance. For now you can forget about Cushings or Hypothyroidism causing insulin resistance and concentrate on proceeding slowly to reach the proper dose.

150 would be a good number for a low(nadir) BG reading. Just remember to stay with a dose for 5 to 7 days, do a 12 hour curve and then re-evaluate. The 5 to 7 days is important because it takes that or longer for their body to adjust to changes in insulin.

Also... each dog is different and their nadir can be anywhere over the course of 12 hours. My Lily’s nadir is usually around 9 to 10 hours after insulin.