We lost our Fight for Beau, my heart breaks!

[diamondlinks]

My dog Beau is 7 years old and weights 109 pounds. Last week we found out he has diabeties. We want to do our own curve testing at home so he won't be stressed out. I tried to do that using a Bayer Contour which my vet suggested. I had problems finding an easy place to get blood. We were all tramuatized by having to poke him many times to get blood. The elbow seemed to work best. It is so stressfull. Any advise on the right place to get this drop of blood?

[Chloe's Mom]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

Hi there,

I use the carpal pad on my dog and it works great. That's the pad above the foot pads on the front feet. Some dogs will lie down for this; mine won't so I stand her on a table (with a non-slip surface), lift the leg and poke quickly with the lancet. I get a very nice drop of blood that way. There is a video clip of a dog having this done lying down. I will see if I can find it for you.

Hugs,
Heidi and Chloe

My dog Beau is 7 years old and weights 109 pounds. Last week we found out he has diabeties. We want to do our own curve testing at home so he won't be stressed out. I tried to do that using a Bayer Contour which my vet suggested. I had problems finding an easy place to get blood. We were all tramuatized by having to poke him many times to get blood. The elbow seemed to work best. It is so stressfull. Any advise on the right place to get this drop of blood?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

Hi!

Welcome to you and Beau.

The elbow undoubtedly is a great place to test your dog's blood sugar. The lip is another.

We have video or picture tutorials of testing in various places at www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html.

Success is usually a matter of practice, a bit of patience with yourself, and the specific tools that you use.

For example, a clicker device for lancing typicallys works great for testing on the lip but usually does not work well for elbows, the back at the base of the tail, and dew pads because the skin is much thicker there. So usually for testing somewhere other than the lip, you need to manually lance it instead of using the clicker. You will see that in the video tutorials.

Also, some lancets are too fine to do a good job drawing blood and lances with a thicker point will do the job much better. You want a lancet that's at least 25 gauge. The smaller the gauge number of the lancet, the larger it is. So avoid 26-28 gauge lances.

The best way to learn without traumatizing you or your dog is to try a few times and then set it aside for a few hours or until the next day. It takes time to figure out what works best for you and for your dog to get used to it. I had a terrible time getting a good drop of blood at first but over a week's time we just tried once or twice a day and each day I got a little better at it and Chris got better about lying still while I tested him.

By the way, if you watch our video of me testing Chris on the lip, first, it's a big video so give it time to download. And then I always mention that Chris is not in his usual position in that video because it would have been impossible to video - I didn't have someone handy to hold the camera.

When I tested Chris, 98% of the time I had him lie on his side. Which allowed me to fold his lip back and have a nice flat surface for the clicker. I put a finger of my left hand on each side of the spot I was going to lance and pulled the skin taut between my fingers. And then applied a little pressure with the clicker. Worked like a charm. I also stayed mostly forward just behind the canine tooth. Too far back on the lip and it didn't want to bleed.

Every dog is different so take your time and don't feel bad if it takes a while to get it figured out.

If you want to use a clicker, I always recommend the Accucheck Softclix. I hated the one that came with the meter I liked best, the OneTouch Ultra. The Softclix is gentle, quiet, and well made so it works smoothly.

Natalie

[Chloe's Mom]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

OK, here it is:

http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=P2090002.mp4

I see Natalie has responded too. She has a great video too.

Please let us know if you have more questions :-)

Hugs,
Heidi and Chloe

[ozzi]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

My dog Beau is 7 years old and weights 109 pounds. Last week we found out he has diabeties. We want to do our own curve testing at home so he won't be stressed out. I tried to do that using a Bayer Contour which my vet suggested. I had problems finding an easy place to get blood. We were all tramuatized by having to poke him many times to get blood. The elbow seemed to work best. It is so stressfull. Any advise on the right place to get this drop of blood?

Hi,

Congratulations on learning to home test! I believe it is the single most important thing that you can do to manage your diabetic pet. I delayed home testing Ozzi because I didn't know I could until I came here. I completely understand the stress you are feeling. It took me a while to be able to stick him for fear of hurting him, but Natalie pointed out that not testing him could hurt him more, and she was right. I found it so valuable not only for performing curves, but to find out his BG when he wasn't acting quite right (typically at 11PM on a Saturday night!)

Regarding the "right place" to get blood, I think it's really what works best for you and for Beau. Many people here have great success from the lip. This was the first place I tried, and although it was easy to draw blood, Ozzi hated it!! I ended up using his elbow callous. After a few sticks, I got pretty good at it, and Ozzi was fine with this location. So I would try a couple of different locations and see what works best for you and Beau. I will warn you that there will be times, especially initially, when you stick him and get nothing. Don't be discouraged, it does take some practice, but you will be fine in no time!

I do have a tip for you if you use the elbow callous but are having trouble getting the drop of the blood onto the strip. Apply a small amount of Vaseline to the elbow callous before pricking it with a lancet. The Vaseline will create a slick surface so the blood doesn't absorb into the fur, and it makes it easier to get the drop of blood on the meter strip. I used to test Ozzi in the standing position, since that worked best for both of us. Again, some experimentation in terms of sites and positions will make it clear as to what will work best for you and for Beau.

Please let us know how it goes for you,
Kevin

[eileen]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

I agree with Kevin in that learning to home test is without a doubt one of the best tools that you can have in treating their diabetes.
This is great that you have realized the importance and have already taken it on.

I was fortunate in that on the same day Mildred was diagnosed a diabetic friend of mine offered me his spare meter so I actually began testing Mildred that very day and have not let up since.

I have been testing her for 6 years, EVERY single day.
I use the inside of her lip with the lancet in hand, without the device.

The stress will let up as time goes by and as you gain more confidence.

[diamondlinks]

Thanks for all the encouragement!

I have given it another try and have found that the elbow seems to be the best place for Beau and I. I am going to get lancets that are 25 gague, I think that will help too. Beau is such a trooper, he just sits there and waits till I'm done. I sure wouldn't be that trusting if I were him. Some people say to only use a BG meter for dogs, but I am using Bayer Contour, I don't know how correct it is. My vet has asked me to bring it in and we will test it against hers. My vet is really great, but I had one vet that said no it's not OK to test at home. She was only in it for the money, not what is best for my beloved pet. Beau gets very distressed at the vets office so I did not want to put him through that all day testing. Plus the curve would be off since he is so stressed. Thanks for all the encouragement!!!

Beau & Loretta

[eileen]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

Loretta,

You're so fortunate in that Beau cooperates with you in testing. My Mildred has always been cooperative too with both insulin injections and the testing. Over the years she has even learned to offer me either her front, sides or rear depending upon where I tell her I'm going to give her 'medicine'.
.... I swear she understands English ;-)

For several years I went back and forth between the Accensia Contour, the Accu Check Aviva as well as the One Touch Ultra, all of which had their differences but enabled me to watch her trends.

About 2 years ago I decided to finally 'bite the bullet' and purchased the Alpha Trak which has become affordable now that these good folks here informed me that the Freestyle Lite test strips can be used in this meter.

When you compare your meter with the vet's readings you will need to compare it to lab results and NOT his/her hand held meter.

Because I have always home tested Mildred I have only had 2 in office curves run, the first when she was diagnosed 6 years ago and the second 1 year later following the removal of her gall bladder at Davis.
I never have fructosamine tests run either as I obtain all the information I need by my own testing.

Continued good luck at soon becoming a home testing pro!

[ozzi]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

Loretta,

I'm glad you and Beau have located a mutually agreeable location to test! That really is AWESOME news, and I'm very excited about it! I wanted to mention to you that the red blood cells of dogs are different from those of humans, which is why a human glucometer won't be 100% accurate. However, most people here, including me when I had Ozzi, use a human glucometer. They are MUCH cheaper than those made for dogs, and as Eileen mentioned, you can essentially "convert" the numbers once you find out the accuracy of the meter you are using as compared to the lab value drawn on the same blood at the vet's office. The good news is that human meters show lower readings than the actual BG value, and I always felt some comfort in that when Ozzi ran in 30's and 40's! Once you get used to the meter you are using, and how Beau's numbers are running, you will be fine.

Like you, I felt that Ozzi's BG when taken at the vet's office was dubious at best, given the amount of stress he endured just by taking the car ride! I never really knew what the numbers meant because I knew they weren't "true" values, and I was suspect about adjusting his insulin based on those numbers.

There is nothing like home testing, where your pet is in their usual environment. The first time I brought Ozzi in for a glucose curve, I was all prepared with his food, treats, etc., and gave explicit instructions on what he ate and when. They had me give him insulin, which I did, but do you think he would eat at the vet's office??? I brought him home and he ate right away, and then brought him back and forth (1/2 hour each way) every two hours all day. What a nightmare! I'm so happy that you are learning to home test. Soon, it will be a breeze!

Best of luck to you!!
Kevin

[diamondlinks]

I need dog food advice

I was wondering what is recommended as a good diet for K9 diabeties. My vet has told me to use Hills wd. So that is what I have been using, but when I check out the ingredients the first 4 are corn which I have always been told is a starch that turns to sugar. I asked the vet she said it's the way it's processed that makes it good. That sounds like she doesn't really know, just her blank answer. I always feed my dog Innova which the first 4 ingredients are meat, which is what they need protein, and fiber right? And you can only get this Hills wd from a vets office. Any sugestions?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

Although I don't advocate corn as the main protein source for a dog's diet, I do have to say that WD tends to work very well for diabetic dogs. It often gives a nice flat profile to the blood sugar and balances well with the action of the insulin.

While other similar prescription brands, Like DCO, another food for diabetic dogs that is also corn based, have not worked as well historically.

So it's not that WD's corn is a problem for the diabetes.

Science Diet makes a very similar food, Science Diet Lite, that you can buy at pet stores and can use instead of WD. It has, I believe, a tad less fiber than the prescription food but is generally very similar and gives good results, plus is usually a little cheaper.

Having said all of that, we have dogs here eating everything from WD to premium pet foods to home cooked and doing well on them. Dogs are so individual in how they process food and insulin, that almost any food has the potential to work. It's a matter of trial and error to see if the food you want to feed works well with how they absorb the insulin.

Your dog may be able to stay on Innova with no adjustments or with some additional fiber, which you can add with something like pumpkin.

Here's a thread that shows all of the different diets people are using.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240

A lot of people like Blue Buffao Weight Management.

Natalie

[CoolGram]

Re: Help I'm new and I need some advice

Hi Loretta, and welcome to you and Beau. My mini-schnauzer, Gretel, has been on Hill's Perscription W/D since she was first diagnosed in January of this year, except for a one month period when we tried Royal Canin because she went on a food strike at breakfast time. I too was concerned after reading the list of ingredients and seeing corn at the top of the list. However, I can't argue with success, as her blood glucose numbers have recently (finally) begun to drop into a good range.

You are correct in that the W/D is only available with a veterinary perscription and it is expensive that's for sure. I have also been adding a tablespoon of plain canned pumpkin to her food and she just loves it, so she's getting some extra fiber there.

I have read others here say how much they like the Blue Buffalo brand food, and I would love to have tried it, but Gretel also has bladder stone issues and even the Blue Buffalo company didn't recommend their own food because of that.

I guess the bottom line is, whatever works is what you want to use. It definitely may take some trial and error, but you'll find lots of good advice here that can at least point you in the right direction. Good luck!

Carolyn

[diamondlinks]

Fructosamine test info for Beau

The vet just called and did not like the results of the blood curve test, she said they are concerned about the low numbers in the afternoon. So now hey want to do a fructosamine test instead of the curve. Here are his numbers

6:40am (eat) 7:25am (shot) 527
9:25am 459
11:55am 401
1:55pm 337
4:25pm 72
6:25pm 149
6:30pm (eat) 7:00pm(shot)6:00pm (eat)
6:30pm (shot) 396 @ 7:20pm


Can anyone help with some advise?

[CarolW]

Re: Fructosamine test info for Beau

Hi Loretta,

I'm going to have to search out your earlier posts, because I don't think I can really comment effectively without having them right at hand. Too much missing information.

I agree with the vet that ONE of the readings in the afternoon is slightly alarming. I'm not sure which insulin Beau is on, nor what dose was given. Can you provide that information?

And I'm REALLY confused about why the vet might want a fructosamine test (which gives an average blood glucose level for approximately the past couple of weeks) - INSTEAD of a curve.

Was this curve done at the vet's office? And if so, did they feed Beau on approximately the schedule he's used to, and was it the same food he always gets, and did he eat all his food? and so forth.

And would you remind us how much Beau weighs, and about how long he's been on insulin (presumably, from the date of his diagnosis)?

Maybe the vet wants to COMPARE an average over the past two weeks with today's curve results, perhaps to see if the curve is representative - if it makes sense.

I'm so tired right now I consider myself rather incompetent, but I'll let others comment, or make suggestions, about what might work better. My FEELING is that you'd want to do another curve in a week or so. Is there a dose adjustment to be made as a result of that curve?

Those numbers wouldn't panic me, though I'd surely be watching that 72, and the rapid afternoon drop in glucose level.

Maybe I've just answered my own question here; that is, whether the curve had something about it that wasn't properly representative of a typical day for Beau. But I surely can't see SUBSTITUTING fructosamine tests for curves. Only curves give you a good idea of what sorts of insulin doses (with what sorts of food) make a good balance.

I'll be watching, and I can only suggest, don't panic! I WILL be interested in what others have to say.

Fri, 8 Oct 2010 18:55:00 (PDT)

[diamondlinks]

Re: Fructosamine test info for Beau

Beau was diagnoised on September 16, 2010 his Bg WAS 633. He is 7 years old and weighted 109, he now weights 103.7. The insullin he is on is Humulin N 100 ML, he gets 20 units twice a day or every 12 hours. He was eating Hills Wd, I did not like the ingredients so I have him on Wellness Core and I add beet pulp for extra fiber. No the curve was not done at the Vets, I am doing it at home, he is to distressed at the Vets. We were going to do another curve this Sunday but the Vet said just wait and see what this fructosamine test says. When his leve was 72 he had just gone on a 2 hour hike, I don't know if that is what caused the drop or not. Thanks for helping, because I am afraid that the Vet is not on top of his diabeties. He is still drinking a lot, has only slowed down a small amount since he is taking the shots. Thanks

Beau