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  #31  
Old 04-30-2016, 12:24 PM
nyjenniferc nyjenniferc is offline
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

Thanks, everyone. That makes sense. Makes me crazy, but it makes sense.

So, she was 115 at 12:30, right? She's had NO food since then, I was all worried that I'm going out and she'd be too low and crash while I wasn't home. Ha ha ha! It's now almost 3:30 and she's 309.

I give up! Is it somehow that she doesn't digest her food from 6:30 am until NOW???
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  #32  
Old 04-30-2016, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

I think you are feeding a prescription food for digestive problems? Hills ID? I'm no expert, but it looks like Hills ID is fairly high in fat and low in fiber? Some think a diabetic does better on lower fat and higher fiber, but Cookie's other problems might require the digestive formula.

I switched to Nutrisource Weight Management several months ago and higher fiber "seems" to do well for Annie http://www.nutrisourcepetfoods.com/n...gement-recipe/

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  #33  
Old 04-30-2016, 05:01 PM
nyjenniferc nyjenniferc is offline
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

Yes, Craig, but it was Hills Science Diet for Sensitive Stomachs, over-the-counter from Petco. This one has a lot of carbs. Dry matter analysis said 53.9% fiber, 15% fat and 23% protein. I'm thinking after I get back I'll try the Nutrisca, it's available at a lot of local stores and has a lot less carbs. Dogfoodadvisor.com says the dry matter analysis was 36% protein, 20% fat and 36% carbs, and the ingredient list was a lot lower glycemic index items.

In my diabetic human patients, we always suggested a lower carb/low glycemic diet. We were taught that fat slows the digestion. Does this hold true in dogs too?

Last edited by nyjenniferc; 04-30-2016 at 05:10 PM. Reason: number error typo
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  #34  
Old 04-30-2016, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

Your 115 reading 6 hrs post injection is a very good number. The 309 later is to be expected on a relatively low dose. Keep in mind that all dogs are type 1 not type 2. When the insulin is used up they start to rise. Some very quickly.
So the tricky part is keeping diet & insulin working so they dont drop too low in the middle and still stay at a reasonable level by next fasting. that is a balancing act: tweaking is by fiber as Craig mentioned, adjusting carbs, and insulin. As you found out exercise really plays an important role just as it does with humans.
It is actually going quite well for as new as your dog is to all this.

BTW rule of thumb is that if you are giving 14 units daily...half of that dose goes to handle bodily maintenance and the other half to balance food. All dogs differ on that, but 50% is average.

Last edited by Joan; 04-30-2016 at 05:11 PM.
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  #35  
Old 04-30-2016, 05:21 PM
nyjenniferc nyjenniferc is offline
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

Thanks, Joan! That's interesting...In my human patients, the dr figures out the dose and we don't deviate. I'm kind of doing my own thing with Cookie!

The treatment is so different- in my type 1 kids we use the pump that gives a basal rate of rapid-acting insulin, and then figure out a carb: insulin ratio for meals. Like if they eat a cup of pasta, it's 43 grams of carbs, so the girl I have now would get 4.3 u to cover the lunch. Plus they cover anything over a certain level in their blood sugar. The pump is amazing. Can I get a dog pump???

In my type 2 patients, it's usually a long acting insulin like Lantus, and then maybe coverage with a rapid acting for lunchtime carbs. Maybe.

I haven't had a patient on an N or an R insulin in AGES!!!
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  #36  
Old 04-30-2016, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

I believe that one of the main differences in managing dogs as compared to humans is that with (most) dogs, because they need a much smaller dose it is absorbed much more quickly. that is why many commercial foods recommended to diabetic dogs are very high in carbs to offset that sudden drop. Also you will find with a low carb/high protein diet that you do not get the longevity required.
I see in your thread that you are thinking about trying a higher fat food? A lot of diabetic dogs do not tolerate that too well, so you may want to introduce that gradually. Since they already have a pancreatic problem, a good number are susceptible to pancreatitis. I have had 6 diabetic pugs, all rescues, currently have 3, and all have been in life threatening pancreatic situations resulting in DKA before we adopted/rescued them.
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  #37  
Old 04-30-2016, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

The weight management foods do seem to help and it seems that some work well for one dog and not at all for another. The trick is finding the one that works with your dog's metabolism.
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Laura & Charlie 29 lb male lhasapoo diagnosed October 2013. 16ish units of Novolin N. 1 & 1/3 cup of Natural Balance Fat Dog twice a day. An egg with breakfast and chicken with dinner. Shares string cheese with us late afternoon. Cyclosporine ointment for KCS. Blind from cataracts January 2014. Crossed the rainbow bridge 2/1/2016 at 14.5 years
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  #38  
Old 04-30-2016, 09:49 PM
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Dogs do process insulin faster than humans. I have found with those higher carb foods like wd or purina dco that Maggie hated them. Nutrisca was a last ditch effort for me to try and improve her digestion. The only food she ate before Nutrisca was Blue Buffalo Weight Management but she was so gassy and kind of bloated looking and was having runny poos so much that she seemed miserable. She liked the food but it did not like her. I saw Nutrisca and tried it. Her insulin needs dropped drastically and it needed propping up with extra food to keep her numbers in an acceptable range. I also realized that for some reason, the 12 hour schedule was not working for her. Once I made some tweaks and a couple of heavy snacks, I got her to a decent level of regulation. It is all very individual - you almost have to look at it that way and then personalize a program that works for your dog. That is why you see so many different diets and routines here. It is just a journey that never ends. We have people whose dogs are all messed up because they didn't fit the one size fits all routine some vets go by without deviation. They have to find their own way if they don't have a vet that thinks outside the box or lacks experience and education.
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  #39  
Old 05-01-2016, 05:00 AM
nyjenniferc nyjenniferc is offline
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

Holy moly, such a learning curve! Wish I still worked in the hospital so I could discuss this with our endocrinologists as well as you guys! They'd probably be very interested!

So, basically, I'm finding that every dog is vastly different, and THIS is why it takes so long to regulate them. Grr.

To totally switch topics, what does everyone do when they'll be out for the evening? Last weekend I had DH give Cookie her shot, but last night we both went out, and I insisted we had to leave the party early to get Cook's shot in...we were only 30 min off schedule or so...
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  #40  
Old 05-01-2016, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Cookie and Impatient Jenn, RN!

up to an hour or so is ok from time to time . Yesterday i was about 1.5 hour off out with my daughter ended up a tad higher for this mornings fasting

The worry is overlap into next shot with a late shot but from what i see with jesse as long as she is fed something at shot time it seems to negate any overlap

the body does a good job at compensating for this thats why you really dont see allot of hypo events but you dont want to be complacent
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