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Old 10-27-2013, 06:55 PM
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Charlie's mom Charlie's mom is offline
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Question Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

We have an 12.5 year old Lhasa poo that was diagnosed 10 days ago. He started out with 3 units twice a day of humulin and was upped to 4 after a week as his BG was still 383. He is big for the mixed breed ( we think that dad was not a miniature!). He was overweight at 38 lbs and has lost 9 lbs in the last 3 weeks. He is now supposed to eat 3 cups of w/d split between the two meals.

My challenge is waking him up to eat around 7! Lyme disease has also returned, so I am able to tempt him with peanut butter to eat his antibiotic. I've resorted to nuking an egg and mixing it with the dry w/d. He'll pick out the egg and eat 1/2 to 3/4 cup of the w/d so I'm comfortable giving him his insulin ; he'll eventually finish the w/d by 10 or 11.

By 4pm though, he is sitting in the kitchen barking for food. He loves baby carrots so we tried giving him two of those but it's not enough. The last three days we've given him 1/3 cup of his old food ( science diet active mobility) at 4. That seems to hold him until 6:30 or 7:00 when he starts barking again. He'll then eat 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups of w/d with 1/8 cup of baked chicken buried in it, so I am comfortable giving him his insulin.

Prior to his diagnosis he had been a grazer who usually ate 2/3 cup of active mobility at 8, 2ish and then 6 when we ate dinner. He is still going for his walks at 11 and 3 and is back to walking his usual distances without needing to rest. The weakness in his hind legs is gone as is the thirst and urine accidents.

We have not yet started testing throughout the day as we're still getting into a routine, the vet is going to do another BG on Friday and then a fructosamine the following Friday.

So, to my questions!

Any ideas on how to get Charlie to wake up and eat more breakfast? Or since he eventually finishes are we ok with the current morning routine?

What about the need for a snack? We feel like the active mobility is better than cookies but could we be causing potential problems by giving him this extra food? Since he is becoming more active again I do worry about him crashing. (Side note, my Mom was a brittle diabetic so I grew up knowing how to mix OJ and sugar for her).

Finally thanks to all of you for this forum and your advice for diabetic fur babies. I think I've read every post from the last 3-4 months in the last 10 days!

Once I'm approved I will update my profile.

Thanks,
Laura aka Charlie's mom
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2013, 07:18 PM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

Welcome to the forum!
As you've probably read, it's important tat they eat their meals. It would be very hard if he continues with this morning routine. Figure it like this: he needs X amount of insulin for Y amount of food. If you / he varies the amount of food, you really can't give the normal dosage of insulin. Many vets like w/d, and many pups do well on it, but other pups just won't eat it. If you have trouble with w/d, you might need to try something else (as long as there isn't any other health reasons for w/d). Many of us started on w/d, or other diabetic formula, but have gone to a quality regular dog food.

Most think two identical meals is best. If you add a third meal, that also can make things difficult. There are exceptions, but most do two meals followed by the injection. Small "Normal" snacks would throw my Annie's blood glucose way high, so about the only thing she gets between meals is 1-2 green beans.

Have to run, it Annie's blood test, meal and injection time. Let's see if anyone else has answered.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

Welcome to the forum! The hunger will get better as his body adjusts to insulin - that part takes time. His body is not efficiently using that food right now.

Can you adjust his schedule to a time when he might feel more like eating? Like 8 am and 8pm. Also, maybe walk him for a few minutes to wake him up a bit.

Do you think he dislikes the w/d or would it matter what food it is? There are many people here who struggle with a difficult eater. My dog was quite picky but if it is a food she likes, she will eat very enthusiastically. It just took a long time to find some things she liked.

I think in the initial stages, giving the extra "meal" might be interfering with progress. In the beginning, you are trying to work up to a dose so the best you can adhere to the schedule, the better off you will be.

Are you testing his blood sugar at home? This will help you determine the impact of not eating his meal has on his blood sugar. Plus, it saves you lots of time and money at the vet and can be a life-saving tool.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

As Amy mentioned, he will likely seem hungry until his blood glucose gets into a better range. Without proper insulin, much of the nutrition in the blood sugar can't be utilized by the body's cells and is removed from the body in the urine. It appears your vet is starting him on a pretty low dosage, not a bad thing, but lower than most pups are started with. Many start at 0.2 units per pound, so if he currently weighs about 30 pounds many would have started closer to 6 units.

Many of us who use NPH insulin are using Novolin-N from Walmart for $25/vial. Novolin-N and Humulin-N are both NPH insulins and you'd save some $$$ if you switched to Novolin-N. Syringes are also less expensive at Walmart.

Btw, many think carrots are not diabetic friendly because they have a high sugar content.

Here is a link to a good review of diabetes. http://www.2ndchance.info/diabetesdog.htm

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

We're not having a good day, a couple of piddle accidents and he still hasn't finished his breakfast:-( even after a walk.

Told my husband no more carrots during the day....or at a maximum a slice of a baby carrot not the whole thing!

Going to try and skip the 4 PM snack and hold out for dinner at 7 followed by his insulin.
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Laura & Charlie 29 lb male lhasapoo diagnosed October 2013. 16ish units of Novolin N. 1 & 1/3 cup of Natural Balance Fat Dog twice a day. An egg with breakfast and chicken with dinner. Shares string cheese with us late afternoon. Cyclosporine ointment for KCS. Blind from cataracts January 2014. Crossed the rainbow bridge 2/1/2016 at 14.5 years
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:18 PM
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

Sorry but carrots arent good for a diabiatic dog

Maybe try broccoli, a few green beans

Do you know what his blood glucose readings are on the 4 units?
If he, s having accidents might want to raise his dose a 1/2 a unit. See what his numbers are.

The w/d food feeding guide says 1.5 cups a day if I.m reading it right
Maybe he, s getting too much food and cant eat it all if your feeding 1.5 twice a day?
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20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017

Last edited by Riliey and Mo; 10-28-2013 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

Hello and welcome
A couple of thoughts - first is that some of us carried on feeding the same food as we did before diagnosis and managed to get the insulin to interact ok with that. We did this mainly because Eddie has other digestive problems and we were reluctant to risk stirring those up with a change of food.
The second is just wondering if you can cut down his afternoon and evening food so that he is just hungrier in the morning. It might take a little time (and he might not be massively happy with it!) but it might gradually encourage him to eat a bit more in the morning.

If Eddie gets very hungry outside mealtimes I sometimes just give him a raw egg which doesn't seem to raise his blood sugar too much and does seem to fill him up a bit.

Antonia
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Eddie - Lab x golden retriever. Weighed 63lbs. Ate Canagan. Diagnosed October 2012. 13units of Caninsulin twice a day. Had EPI as well as diabetes. Died 20 June 2017. Loved forever.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:44 PM
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Smile Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

Thank you all again for your quick responses; he only ate two cups pre-diagnosis so this new food with the extra fiber might be too much for him. I also like the idea of saving his egg for his afternoon snack.

And yes, his next insulin will come from Walmart, what a crazy difference in price.

He is one of the few dogs that HATES green beans, so we are going to find a new snack.
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Laura & Charlie 29 lb male lhasapoo diagnosed October 2013. 16ish units of Novolin N. 1 & 1/3 cup of Natural Balance Fat Dog twice a day. An egg with breakfast and chicken with dinner. Shares string cheese with us late afternoon. Cyclosporine ointment for KCS. Blind from cataracts January 2014. Crossed the rainbow bridge 2/1/2016 at 14.5 years
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

My Maggie is not a green bean fan either - you can try low fat string cheese or real meat bites. I buy freeze dried buffalo bites from Bravo but there are several good brands out there. Stella and Chewy's Carnivore Kisses in duck, beef or chicken. There is also a brand called Pure Bites that I like a lot. If you just give one or two at a time, I don't notice a huge difference in bg in my dog. It is kind of something you have to experiment with.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Newbie whose dog is NOT interested in breakfast

I have found that Trooper will not even look at a green bean but I cook skinless chicken breast in water and then slice it thin. He gets that as a treat and it does not appear to do anything very bad to his BS. He also lost a lot of weight to begin with. He was overweight due to thyroid problems and was 30#. He dropped a lot and today at vet was 25# and has been holding at that. 3u seems a bit light for his weight but better when you can test at home and as others mentioned, better to start with a low dose and increase later. They take a while to settle to the dose. Also I do not feed at exactly 12 hours apart due to conflict with Trooper's thyroid meds so we do the best we can.
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Trooper age 12. Meds: Thyroxin .45 twice per day. Diabetes diagnosed Sept 2013. Starting Humulin dose 6 units 2 x day, now at 7u. Food: Home cooked chicken/turkey and veggies. Eggs/cottage cheese/salmon on occasion
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