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  #1  
Old 01-28-2017, 05:51 AM
Lauren Lauren is offline
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Default Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

We have a small 19 yo chi who was dxed last year and has been in good control on 2 units/twice daily. Was on Walgreens insulin until just recently.

Last month we agreed to take in an 11 yo lhasa mix from a disabled owner w/lots of drinking/peeing, 4+ urine ketones, 4+ urine glucose, blood glucose at vet was 400.
His name is Willie. Vet suggested we start him on 2 units/twice daily. We bought Relion Novolin to help with costs and switched the chi over as well as his bottle was almost empty ( yes we used it for 6 months or so).
Willie has been to the vet weekly for retesting with BGs of 500-600 consistently. Each time we raised his insulin dose some.
He is now on 4 units/twice daily.
Last glucose at vet was yesterday morning = 567.
We're not seeing significant drinking/peeing, accidents in house have disappeared. No ketones in urine but tons of glucose in urine of course.

The vets are saying he has insulin resistance - he weighs 17 lbs. Currently on 8 units/day. I saw that Dr Petersen writing where he informed another vet that resistance was above 2.2 U/kg and followed the poster here...

Yesterday I asked for thyroid testing, a panel was drawn and sent to Michigan State U. Willie had a low dose dex test done yesterday but his skin is normal from my perspective.
He is having some hair loss on his upper shoulder area just above where I am doing the insulin injections - has anyone seen this from injections?

Willie also had a chem panel drawn yesterday to get liver function numbers.

Still waiting on all results.

Right now I am wondering how many dog owners are seeing difference between the expensive insulin at Walgreens versus the wonderfully less expensive at Walmart.

You guys are the experts. From my perspective, Willie has been running a 500 or higher BG for about a month now and I am desperate to save his eyes and kidneys.
Though he has no ketones in his urine anymore...so bizarre.

Thanks for any feedback and help for Willie.
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2017, 02:53 PM
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Auddog Auddog is offline
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Hi there,
Welcome to the forum! Bless you for taking in another sugar baby along with your pup

I'm sorry that I can't be much help because my dog was started on the Walmart Relion / Novolin brand insulin and we were able to achieve good regulation on that. I never tried him on insulin from any other pharmacies.

I'm curious if you saw any numbers change in your other pup when you switched his/her insulin? I'm assuming the NPH from Walgreens is the Humulin brand? There are a number of threads on this page discussing the difference people have seen between the two brands:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18

From what I remember in reading a number of these threads is that some people see a slight difference and others don't. It's like we love to say here on the forum, every dog is different

As far as Willie being called insulin resistant, I don't think he's there yet. I've read that a pup is not considered insulin resistant until they are receiving 1 unit per pound per injection, so Willie has some room to increase his dose. Some dogs just require a more insulin than others, and that's okay. How long has Willie been on insulin? Was he just started when you agreed to bring him into your home? Regulation takes time, my boy's numbers were all over the place for the first 9 months after being diagnosed.

I'm also curious if you've considered home blood glucose testing? I honestly believe that home testing can help the regulation process go faster, and it's significantly less cost than having a vet's office do it.

Hope to hear from you soon! I'm sure others will be along to share their thought too (though it does get a little slow here on the weekends).

Again, Welcome to the forum!

Audrey
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Bazzle - My sweet German Shepherd Chow Chow boy, born approximately 6/7/2002, adopted 8/7/2002, diagnosed with diabetes 12/28/2012, lived happy and healthy on Novilin 70/30 and Hill's Science Diet WD... Continued his journey into the next life on 5/15/2016. I miss you baby boy; you'll stay in my heart forever.
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2017, 05:10 PM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

Welcome!

Although every dog / situation is different, my Annie (15 year old, 18+ pound Lhasa Apso) is currently getting 9.5 - 10 units of Novolin-N twice a day. Years ago, the dose was 7.5 - 8 units, so her requirements have increased a little with age. Her food is different, so that might have required the dosage increase.

Home blood testing would probably make this progress much quicker.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2017, 06:18 PM
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farrwf farrwf is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauren View Post
We bought Relion Novolin to help with costs and switched the chi over as well as his bottle was almost empty ( yes we used it for 6 months or so).
6 months from the same vial??? WOW, and it's still effective??
Willie has been to the vet weekly for retesting with BGs of 500-600 consistently. Each time we raised his insulin dose some.
He is now on 4 units/twice daily.
Last glucose at vet was yesterday morning = 567.
We're not seeing significant drinking/peeing, accidents in house have disappeared. No ketones in urine but tons of glucose in urine of course.
The vets are saying he has insulin resistance - he weighs 17 lbs.
He's nowhere near insulin resistance @ 4 Units / 2x a day for a 17# dog
Currently on 8 units/day. I saw that Dr Petersen writing where he informed another vet that resistance was above 2.2 U/kg and followed the poster here...

Yesterday I asked for thyroid testing, a panel was drawn and sent to Michigan State U. Willie had a low dose dex test done yesterday but his skin is normal from my perspective.
He is having some hair loss on his upper shoulder area just above where I am doing the insulin injections - has anyone seen this from injections?

Willie also had a chem panel drawn yesterday to get liver function numbers.

Still waiting on all results.

Right now I am wondering how many dog owners are seeing difference between the expensive insulin at Walgreens versus the wonderfully less expensive at Walmart.
The only difference between the Novolin at Walgreen's and the ReliOn Novolin at Walmart is the price, thanks to Walmart's position on nph insulin pricing. The product is the same.
I am desperate to save his eyes and kidneys.
Dogs react to diabetes much different than humans. Blindness from cataracts is a major concern, kidney problems aren't.
Thanks for any feedback and help for Willie.
KUDUS to you for taking in Willie, a homeless special needs senior pup, in addition to your 19 year old special needs guy.
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Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dadís loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.

Last edited by farrwf; 01-29-2017 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:20 PM
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amydunn19 amydunn19 is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

The insulin is the same type and is a name brand - the contract with WalMart used to be Humulin N and it switched back to Novolin N. I much preferred Novolin - the duration was much better for Maggie and the bottle stayed fresher. I changed vials every month - the most I ever got out of a bottle was 6 weeks - her numbers kept inching up on me if I tried to stretch it out. I haven't heard of anyone getting 6 months out of a bottle.
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:49 AM
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Eddie Eddie is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

Some of us with bigger dogs can only dream of getting more than two weeks out of a bottle.......

But I have to say I also admire what you are doing with taking on two elderly diabetics - well done!

Antonia
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Eddie - Lab x golden retriever. Weighed 63lbs. Ate Canagan. Diagnosed October 2012. 13units of Caninsulin twice a day. Had EPI as well as diabetes. Died 20 June 2017. Loved forever.
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2017, 04:49 PM
Lauren Lauren is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

Forgive my newbie status.

I want to thank all of you for your replies!!

I moved Willie to 10 units/day and plan to move him to 12 in a few days.
Still no results from the testing but his improvement each day in energy and happiness has been good to see. And his urine glucose is dropping. Very good news for my husband and I to see.

Thanks especially for the info on insulin with the female 18 lb lhasa, I think it was, and the feedback that kidney damage was not as severe in dogs..

Today I purchased a glucometer, strips, etc and will be doing my own testing at home as soon as I have watched the videos.

I want to post again when I get some results, maybe in a few days...thanks so much!! So helpful to have this community of people to learn from.
Willie agrees! I wanted to post a pic of him but can't see a way to do it from here.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:04 PM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauren View Post
Forgive my newbie status.

I want to thank all of you for your replies!!

I moved Willie to 10 units/day and plan to move him to 12 in a few days.
Still no results from the testing but his improvement each day in energy and happiness has been good to see. And his urine glucose is dropping. Very good news for my husband and I to see.

Thanks especially for the info on insulin with the female 18 lb lhasa, I think it was, and the feedback that kidney damage was not as severe in dogs..

Today I purchased a glucometer, strips, etc and will be doing my own testing at home as soon as I have watched the videos.

I want to post again when I get some results, maybe in a few days...thanks so much!! So helpful to have this community of people to learn from.
Willie agrees! I wanted to post a pic of him but can't see a way to do it from here.
I wouldn't increase the insulin dosage until you start using your meter.

What meter did you get? Possibly someone here has experience / recommendations for it.

About how much does Willie weigh?

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9Ĺ years.
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2017, 05:29 AM
Lauren Lauren is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

Willie weighs 17 pounds and I bought the Walmart stuff.
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2017, 07:11 AM
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farrwf farrwf is offline
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Default Re: Relion/Walmart insulin and much more- HELP needed

Great, we'll be looking forward to following Willie's journey.

BTW, what's the 19 yo's name, and how much does he / she weigh & insulin dose?
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Otis Farrell dx'd 12/10, best friend to his dad, Bill, for over 14 years. Left this world while in his dadís loving arms 10/04/13. Sonny Farrell dx'd 1/14, adopted 5/15/14. Left this world while in his dad's loving arms 9/06/16. Run pain free, you Pug guys, til we're together again.
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