Bailey got his wings... June 26, 2014

[Judi]

Re: Regulating Bailey

oh Geoff you have done such a good job with Bailey. You and I did not have an easy go figuring out how to home test!

Your post and Natalie's post hit close to home for me because Jenny will eat things in streaks now.

I do think her last bout turned out to be a bad tooth. Just a thought.

hugs to all of you, Judi

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Thanks Judi, Patty. He didn't eat his breakfast this morning either. Different dog food altogether so.... I'll wait and see what the vet says. He's comfy at least sleeping in his bean-bag again. I think this is hard for me as he has never not eaten before!! But what can I do, nothing really. Just keep an eye on him. Off to work shortly, I hate leaving him here by himself but nothing I can really do.

[runtotorun121]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Hi Geoff,

I am new and do not not know all your history with Bailey here, but I wanted to throw in my two cents worth regarding appetite and willingness to eat.

I am here on this forum with Snowball, but I had experience with a senior Rat Terrier that included kidney, live, pancreas, and who-knows-what. Her vet said she didn't have 'failure' of anything yet but had a perplexing mix of symptoms and numbers (lab values) which he decided was just "Fangie Syndrome" (Fangie was her name!)

So my experience with loss of appetite, and, even more specifically, times when Fangie would be perky and alert and seemingly want to inhale food but would then be a picky butt and eat nothing is causes ranging from olfactory issues to pancreas (we never had full-blown pancreatitis, but I KNOW she has flare-ups) issues to bowel issues (gas! or constipation) to nausea from kidney or other high values to whatever other unknown reason!

All that being said, we used a variety of approaches depending on the issue, and, of course, sometimes we had to just try some things and see what helped and that solidified our diagnosis.

I will say that one of the most concerning parts for me before trying to use enticements and such was whether or not it was a pancreas flare-up because for Fangie she would still try to eat some and would sometimes eat nibbles of things she REALLY didn't want to pass up, but it was not good since it was a touch of pancreas problem during that moment. It is just so hard to make a differential diagnosis without them speaking to us, but that being said, I am sure you have a list of enticements, but there are tons of things you can try other than peanut butter or tuna fish water and peanut butter would be hard on the liver and the pancreas due to the fat content. I can poke around and hunt for a big list of enticements some time if you ever are interested. I know that one of the first things my doggies will eat after not eating for a while for some reason is white breast chicken meat that I put in a hot skillet and brown up the edges. Depending on health issues I sometimes add some garlic powder. If things are not too bad with health I may even add a drop of olive oil, but even just plain in a nonstick frying pan you heat it until the chicken gets brown and crunchy on the sides. Makes it taste/smell different than regular boiled chicken breast.

I have also used simethicone (Gas-X or other brand) for rumbling and sometimes couldn't even hear that in her tummy, but the Gas-X helped and then made the rumbling obvious. You can crush with the back of a spoon, mix in a bit of water and syringe down the yummy peppermint flavor.

For nausea, ulcers, etc. I also used wonderful Slippery Elm. It is fabulous for coating the tummy. Sometimes doggies who seem very hungry really are hungry and want to eat so they try but then you may see them stop because of nausea or ulcers. You open up the capsule (or can buy slippery elm powder) and mix with a little water. Then give before food. Because it coats the tummy it is important to administer in a way/timing that doesn't interfere with any meds/supplements you are giving.

Alternately, I never used Alternagel with Fangie, but some doggies moved on to Alternagel and their doggies could only eat when using that to help.

It seems I may be missing something, but I am getting ready to run and feed/insulin Snowball so if I think of what is hiding in my brain I will come back and type it later!

[momofdecker]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Love the bean bag picture, Geoff. Sounds like you are doing all you can for Bailey - he is one lucky pup to have such a great care taker.

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Thanks runtorun121 that was a very detailed post and thanks for taking the time to reply! His food is generally low in fat but he indeed does have pancreas issues from time to time although its been awhile. I'll am taking him to the vet tonight so I'll see what he says. He was good at dinner last night but didn't touch his breakfast this morning. BG was ok at 17ish. Still investigating!

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Hello all, well the visit to the vet revealed nothing new! Which is good and bad. His teeth are fine, lump seems OK, no other pain was triggered/noticed. He is now on antibiotics as he has a small infection (urinary) but apart from that could be kidney disease, could be this/that hard to tell. I guess if this doesn't yield any results I might consider an expensive blood workout which should be able to tell what is happening where, more or less. He is still not eating, barely touched his dinner, BG is OK, not too high, not too low so finger crossed. I'll keep an eye on him.

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Well, he did not eat anything today either. And I just Googled kidney failure and he fits the bill sadly. He is prone to sleeping all day in his beanbag now. Still drinking water but little to no appetite. Not sure if I should do the blood test to confirm or to let him go frankly. Thoughts?

Geoff

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Well, he did not eat anything today either. And I just Googled kidney failure and he fits the bill sadly. He is prone to sleeping all day in his beanbag now. Still drinking water but little to no appetite. Not sure if I should do the blood test to confirm or to let him go frankly. Thoughts?

Geoff

Hi Geoff. I know that's such a hard decision to make, and I just had to make it myself a few days ago. I can't tell you what to do, but I want you to know that should you choose to put him down, it is quick and peaceful. The hospital Sparkly was at was able to take us outside, in the sunshine, and let him go there, in my arms.

[sherryandfred]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Well, he did not eat anything today either. And I just Googled kidney failure and he fits the bill sadly. He is prone to sleeping all day in his beanbag now. Still drinking water but little to no appetite. Not sure if I should do the blood test to confirm or to let him go frankly. Thoughts?

Geoff

My Fred gave in to kidney failure...he stopped eating and he drank so much he couldn't control his pee anymore...and he slept a lot and at the end he was shaking.we knew that day it was time..it was hard but to see him suffer like that was even harder...if you think he has it then ya you need make a decision....they have treatment for it but it's like a band aid it doesn't fix it...best of luck to you..we are all here for you....

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

He is shaking a little, like he's cold. Goodness does my dog have to get everything? Diabetes. Epilepsy. Pancreantitus. Cataracts. Glaucoma. Possible cushings. I am sitting here at work trying not to cry. Not really working. Just spoke to my wife, he went outside to be sick just now. Bit wobbly. Do I give him a week to see if he peps up? Do I call the vet now to discuss? Do I put him to sleep today?

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Regulating Bailey

I think it's reasonable to call the vet and discuss his prognosis. And what your concerns are.

[sherryandfred]

Re: Regulating Bailey

He is shaking a little, like he's cold. Goodness does my dog have to get everything? Diabetes. Epilepsy. Pancreantitus. Cataracts. Glaucoma. Possible cushings. I am sitting here at work trying not to cry. Not really working. Just spoke to my wife, he went outside to be sick just now. Bit wobbly. Do I give him a week to see if he peps up? Do I call the vet now to discuss? Do I put him to sleep today?

I know how you feel I went threw all of this as well...I can't tell you what to do but ya maybe call the vet let the check him out...Fred threw up to.....you will know what's best..I wish I could give you a hug...I wouldn't wake a week to call the vet though I would call him...did you test his sugar you said he didn't eat?maybe low sugar? Let us know what you do..but know bailey knows you will do what ever is right for him..big hugs to you...

[runtotorun121]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Geoff,

I will say that some vets see a high BUN and high creatinine and immediately scare people to death with "kidney failure" and prescribe KD and send you on your way. It may seem overwhelming to contemplate adding one more thing to mix, and I know you will make the best decision for you and your wife and Bailey, but I do want you to know that if you can do diabetes you can definitely mange kidney numbers a bit.

First, for doggies you want the opposite of what you would expect from our urine. For people you want it mostly clear. For doggies you want it to be yellow in color so if you can see Bailey's pee pee, and it is yellow then it is a good sign. Second, yes, loss of appetite and lethargy can certainly be symptoms of kidney compromise, but it can also be diabetes or whatever. I will tell you that before you look at a a lab panel with "normal" values it is EXACTLY like diabetes in that there are doggies who truck along doing quite swimmingly with what a lot of vets would consider dangerously high levels. Remember, doggies' bodies compensate, and all doggies are different with how they end up. I guess I am trying to say, please try not to panic about kidneys and give up unless you think that is the best thing to do. This is my wheelhouse, and I can direct you to some fabulous resources if necessary. Wonderful people, just like here.

Now, let's say the loss of appetite and lethargy are, indeed, tied to high BUN and creatinine and making poor Bailey feel poo-ish. You can run some IVs and flush flush flush out the toxins, just like with diabetes and ketones, OR you can also do subQs, which is what I brought home with Snowball and got everything all fixed up. Depending on how Bailey is doing, but I was quite comfortable with subQs since I have done them with my doggie and my mom's.

Also, don't let the internet frighten you with saying cats tolerate kidney disease better than dogs for long-term prognosis. I know of plenty of doggies who lived many many years with kidney "failure" that was diagnosed by the book.

But again, I am just throwing all that out there as information for you. I know you will do the absolute best and most loving thing you decide for all of you.

Hugs,
Kristie and Snowball
(and the pack)

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Thanks. He is almost 12, been ill for almost 2 weeks now, hasn't really been himself for ages, his quality of life had diminished. He is dealing with so much other stuff as mentioned below, I think that it is time.

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Thanks. He is almost 12, been ill for almost 2 weeks now, hasn't really been himself for ages, his quality of life had diminished. He is dealing with so much other stuff as mentioned below, I think that it is time.

I'm so sorry. Sparky will meet him at the Rainbow Bridge and show him how much fun it is to run free, with no pain, eating all the delicious foods they can imagine.