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  #1  
Old 09-02-2018, 07:21 PM
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gudgirlgonebiker gudgirlgonebiker is offline
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Default Levi - new thread

Hello. I am new. I am stranded and have very little help from the vet. My Levi is 12. I tried to tell the vet i thought he was diabetic because i am too. He was peeing lakes all over my house, drinking gallons and now is getting cataracts. The vet sed oh no hes likely got kidney troubles, charged me for the tests which came back negative. After i talked them into the blood test it took a week for them to call me back to say yes Levi was diabetic. In the meantime while we waited I started testing him and started him out on 8 units of Lantus twice a day. Its what i take too. I didnt want to wait for bad things to happen. In 2 days he stopped peeing in the house. Once the vet called us back she sed to start him on 7 units so i wasnt that far off.

Heres the thing. He has started peeing in the house again and my testing shows readings of between 5-23. I think i am going to start giving him a humalog bolus at meals to get this down because he is currently taking 14u Lantus twice a day. Trouble is that i was taught to lower my sugar by reading and carb intake. Have you guys ever calculated the carbs in dog food??? They dont list them. I had to figure it out myself. There are 4 kcal to 1 carb. Our food is 368kcal per cup. Levi weighs 70 pounds. Thats alot of carbs per meal.

I have searched everywhere and cant find much dosing info on dogs and humalog. Tonite when his sugar was 17.5 and i added the carbs for his meal i got 23 units for correction and to cover the meal. That cant be right me thinks. Can you all be so kind as to guide me with what you would do?

I have to do something. hes miserable. I cant change vets as mine is a geared to income vet. Thankyou ever so much!
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  #2  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:40 AM
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Default Re: Questions about Humalog

Lantus has not proven to be a good fit for dogs. I would recommend starting with a NPH insulin. Many of us used the Novolin N from WalMart here in the states as it is about $24 a bottle. I donít know if that is an option. Keep in mind dogs process insulin differently than humans. Carbs are necessary in dog food to lengthen the action of insulin and keeping numbers steady.


If you like I can start you a thread for your dog. That way, you have a place to post without old unrelated posts appear.

How much does your dog weigh? Any history of pancreatitis or other medical issues? What are you feeding and how often?
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Questions about Humalog

Maybe amy can start your own thread to keep all your info in one place . You might want to throw away what you know as a human diabetic because the approach is very different for dogs . They dont digest food the way we do so counting carbs and those kind of thing are usually not necessary

Most dogs do not need a fast or short acting insulin as a bolus routine . Most dogs do not attain what looks like normal sugar for most of the day . My jesse regulation is between 100 and 250 for the day divide by 18 to see what that would be in your measurements . !2 hour curves are important some do 24 hours

Post the weight of your dog as amy suggested and complete curves when you have them a test or two doesnt tell us much
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:26 AM
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Default Levi - new thread

Leviís info moved here.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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  #5  
Old 09-03-2018, 01:59 PM
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gudgirlgonebiker gudgirlgonebiker is offline
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

We cant afford the cost of dog insulin and the vet suggested Lantus. They didnt seem to know too much about any other insulin. I have no idea how to post his curve here. He weighs 71 pounds. He will be 13 in april /19. Hes a smooth coated border/retriever cross. It wont let me upload a photo.
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Old 09-03-2018, 03:59 PM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gudgirlgonebiker View Post
We cant afford the cost of dog insulin and the vet suggested Lantus. They didnt seem to know too much about any other insulin. I have no idea how to post his curve here. He weighs 71 pounds. He will be 13 in april /19. Hes a smooth coated border/retriever cross. It wont let me upload a photo.
Hi and welcome to you and Levi.

Don’t worry about uploading his 12 hour curve. You can just key it in. Starting at fasting, with a BG reading every 2 hours, it would look something like this:

7am - BG Reading
9am -
11am -
1pm -
3pm -
5pm -
7pm -

With cost being an issue and considering that you are diabetic and already using Lantus, I would think it’s ok to give ite a try. A couple of our members have given it to their dogs with mixed results. It’s mainly used for cats. However, the AAHA considers it an option for dogs, with a starting dose of .3 units per kg.

With Levi weighing 71lbs or 32kg, his starting dose should have been around 9 units of Lantus every 12 hours.

Not sure if Canadian Wal Marts sell Novolin N, an NPH insulin, but in the USA it’s $25 per vial.

Keep in mind that diabetic dogs are type 1 diabetics. Their pancreas no longer produces insulin. It’s best to feed them a low fat, moderate protein, moderate fiber diet every 12 hours, followed by their insulin.

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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 09-03-2018 at 04:45 PM.
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2018, 12:24 AM
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Unhappy Re: Levi - new thread

i am lucky if i get 2- readings a day. i didnt get one at all today. cant use his ear and have to get the edge of his lip or underside of it. the vet gets it with a syringe. im planning on putting him back on raw again. kibble is hell on him. Dj
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Old 09-04-2018, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

I never had much luck from jesses ear and have used her inner lip above her canine tooth for the 8.5 years shes been diabetic . We may have tested there 10,000 times or more . Now once a dog is regulated most times you dont need to test as much . We haven't done a curve in years but i do test her before giving a dose of insulin or if things get a bit out of whack .

Complete curves are the only way to know what blood sugar is doing and raising or lowering the dose is based on the lowest number within that complete curve
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2018, 06:50 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

With a big dog like Levi, you should be able to get a good sample from the inside of his upper lip. There is a lot of blood available there and it will not hurt him at all.

As jesse girl says, insulin increases should only be done after analyzing the results of a 12 hour curve and they should be based on the lowest number in the curve. This prevents you from going past the proper dose, which can cause Somogyi Rebound and the resulting big swings in BG.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Levi - new thread

Many vets arenít very experienced with diabetes - unfortunately that is pretty common, but you can read some of the general information in the first sections of the forum. NPH is an intermediate acting insulin and dogs seem to do better on it.
These two sections have some informational threads that discuss various topics that might be helpful:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Does Levi have any skin tags or wart like bumps? These usually give great blood and no nerve endings. Your lancet may not be thick enough - dog skin is tougher.

Also, a raw diet can be tricky. The fat level can be too high if the meat is not lean enough. And there needs to be a carb component. If the protein is too high, the insulin is too active and gets used up too fast, leaving the blood sugar high for most of the day. You donít have to do kibble at all - just make sure the diet is lower fat, moderate protein and moderate fiber. Pancreatitis also can be a problem for diabetic dogs so low fat is important.

I would encourage you to investigate and learn as much as you can to manage his diabetes at home. When it comes down to it, you know your dog best and you are fully capable of learning all you need to know to manage your dog day to day. I had to do this because my original vet was not knowledgeable or experienced with diabetes. I almost lost Maggie because of it. I just decided I would learn all I could and I had no experience with diabetes or medical issues to speak of. We are always here to help with questions or concerns too, so please post any questions or comments. We can help you with most any situation.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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