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  #41  
Old 04-06-2020, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

Not sure if your logic can be applied to your method . We think food is all tell all with blood sugar . Half is actually produced by the body and with dogs that could even be more with the lack of digestible carbs in their diet

So a starting dose for your dogs weight is 17.5 units . I would not deviate from that even though its a larger meal . Now what I have determined you can give a quarter of the normal dose of insulin without food . That would be 4.5 units and a reasonable starting dose without food

Now my jesse ended up with a dose of half the amount of insulin of the dose with the one meal which is 3 units . So the 9 units that you are giving is a respectable amount but could be above what is needed because you started at the top end of dosing for no food . The 6 units my jesse gets with food is slightly lower than a normal starting dose for her weight to give you some perspective where she ended up .

Now if you give a dose more than the body needs you will have a difficult time . Evidence of that maybe big swings in sugar and you may see some lethargy . Now if you see further decline in the numbers ( maybe larger swings ) with raising the dose that may further point to to much insulin

Now you could return to a more conservative starting dose of 4.5 units without food and 18 units with . That would probably be the low end of dosing . Do proper curves to determine the direction on dosing . Its up to you how you want to proceed but I would probably lower the dose especially the 27 units . I would probably stay away from r insulin being this new to the process . Usually it takes months to regulate a dog . 6 months for my pup .

With your dogs good response to insulin it is less likely your dog has cushings as cushing dogs are more likely to be resistant to insulin

Maybe you could have got lucky and close to the amount of insulin needed but its hard to say . What we say on the forum most dogs take their own path with the disease and its hard to compare or even apply logic . Most times it takes testing and complete curves to know the correct direction .
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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  #42  
Old 04-06-2020, 08:38 PM
sibhus sibhus is offline
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

Thanks very much Jesse girl, I see your point. As im just 48 hours into using insulin, my dog was at 480bg out of the vets office and I had overcompensated to bring it down. But ill take your advice and hopefully get the dosing correct and reduce it for now.
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  #43  
Old 04-07-2020, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

Trying to overdose to compensate isn't the way to go. It takes at least a week for a dog's body to adjust and settle in to a new dose. That's why it's recommended to stay consistent with a dose, do a curve, then adjust the dose for a week, another curve, adjust, repeat.
Dogs can handle high sugars for a while.

It's not like human diabetes in that you can play with insulin dose all the time, and even with humans, you only do that with a fast acting insulin. Not something that usually works with dogs.
It's staying consistent and methodical.
With Novolin, it's 0.5 units per kg as a starting dose, if feeding twice a day. That'll have to be adjusted for once a day; Jesse has experience with that.

Keep the treats to a minimum right now, and keep it to protein type, dehydrated chicken or like that. No carb treats while you attempt to determine his sugar patterns right now.

Stay the course, don't get focused on numbers (the mistake I made) and it'll slowly start to regulate. Took me almost 2 years.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #44  
Old 04-07-2020, 02:20 PM
sibhus sibhus is offline
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

Raysaint, thanks so much for the advice and I see the mistake I made. I was just stressed out when the bg numbers hovered over 400 and wanted to keep him under 300.

Point taken on the protein treats as that has been a problem all through his life in which we fed him sugar based treats.

One last question I had is that currently I am giving him 1.5 cups of Blue Buffalo Senior chicken dry and one canned version of this. Im dealing with a picky eater and hoping this is ideal as I don't want to switch to the Science diet stuff. I don't know what to believe online as to what is best for diabetic dogs, and couldn't find a food post on this forum as to what others are using.

Thanks again for your help, Kal
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  #45  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

We have seen dogs on many different diets from prescription to high and low end commercial diets and homemade . My jesse has been on a homemade diet for her ten years of being diabetic

If you already have a picky eater than the prescription diets maybe a struggle

Now i am not in full agreement with raysaint on carby treats and food . That is what has worked with jesses dose without insulin . She gets a type of milk bone with molasses in it . What it did for jesse is level out the range of her numbers during that period of the day . Without she would have larger swings in blood sugar . My theory is the injected insulin we use in dogs is to strong so insulin needs to be fed faster . Now if you completely go low gyciemic it just takes to long for that to produce sugar for the insulin to be fed and if not regulation could be a struggle Their digestive system is very different from ours and it appears they process insulin faster than us , Actually the prescription diets are more carby in nature and most dont understand why they work but they do have a good track record

Its a lesson I learned early in jesse diagnosis . I would giver her honey to slow down a big drop and it flattened her curve and that was an oh moment .
So dont get so hung up on low glycemic and you may want to experiment with higher glycemic options and see how your dog responds . What you want to do is flatten the the curve . Similar expression we use for the virus and another is test test test . the more you do that early the more ahead of the game you will be .

Ask as many questions as you would like
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .

Last edited by jesse girl; 04-07-2020 at 08:21 PM.
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  #46  
Old 04-08-2020, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

I should have clarified, I was suggesting no carby treats right now in the early stage, until you see how the curves look with just food and insulin. As you get a perspective on sugar patterns, a carby treat might be a good thing.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #47  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:39 PM
sibhus sibhus is offline
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

Thanks again for your feedback, ive managed to find some diabetic cookie/treats to replace the bad stuff my dog was eating in the past.

After 5 days of being diagnosed with diabetes, I have been taking readings every 6 hours after giving insulin but haven't performed a full curve. His overall range is about 150-280 in daytime and 200-309 at night, again these are at time =0, 6 hours and 12 hours. So far 10 units in the morning with two dried chicken treats 100 calories and 25 units at night with a full meal or roughly 1000 calories. My dog beary is 25lb overweight, currently at 87lb, so hoping we can shed off some weight and bring the insulin down.

I suppose a dogs system adapts to insulin during the first week or so, so curious when a curve should be done?

Also ive noticed both of you have exclusive diets for your dogs, do you never deviate at all from the diets as naturally dogs like different things from time to time and it can hit a soft spot with an owner. I was hoping to replace his canned wet food with an occasional cooked chicken meat but realize this will need different insulin dosing? Is it ok to use two different dosings if food is deviated on a giving night?

Thanks again.
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  #48  
Old 04-10-2020, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

Consistency is usually best. Once you find the right combo of food and insulin, any change will probably throw things off. A different meal can have a different level of carbs/protein/fiber, so the body reacts differently, and you risk a low sugar. And you don't want to guess an insulin dose for that different meal, for the same reason.

Most, if not all, people stick with one food once they find what works. It takes enough time as it is to regulate a dog with one food, throwing something different into the mix will not make it easier, and it may produce numbers that make you conclude the wrong thing, as you assess sugar patterns.

The sugar numbers you indicate right now are pretty decent already. That's a bit odd and could indicate that the body is still making some of its own insulin right now, which can happen.

Maybe take readings at other times to see any low points.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #49  
Old 04-10-2020, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: New owner with question about one time feeding

As raysaint suggested consistency is important but after doing this for over 10 years now jesse snacks a bit here and there .Her meals evolved over time to what she eats now . The only thing that changes is between dark and light meat of chicken which doesnt seem to affect the numbers

Curves are usually done once a week . Once regulated you can do them if spot checking sees a change or physical symptoms appear .

Now the numbers you posted are not complete curves but they give allot of promise as they are in a really good range for being so new to this . Many would be happy to have them for regulation . If a curve shows the numbers you posted in the same range you may want to hold at that dose and let it settle a bit longer as its possible you could see some downward pressure as like you said it takes time for a dog to adapted to the new reality of injected insulin

As your dog looses weight he may need less insulin so something to keep an eye on also

Congrats on a job well done . As time goes on you may have a bit more flexibility . I am not as stringent as I use to be and as jesse has gotten older she protests a bit on testing which she never did before . So I have reduced her testing and I am ok with that because I am very in tuned with how she is feeling . Jesse has done really well on one meal . She would gladly eat 2 but the one meal was the only way to get her to regulation at the time
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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  #50  
Old 06-19-2020, 06:17 PM
sibhus sibhus is offline
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Default Commercial dog foods for Diabetic

I wanted to switch over to something more appropriate for my diabetic husky. Currently I have him on Blue Buffalo Senior grain free dry, however this food has a terrible carb percentage of around 53%. Im also trying to get my dog to lose about 20lbs, with the summer heat im not able to walk him as much. He is reasonably well regulated between 140-250 bg levels using Novolin 70-30.

I was curious if there are any recommendations and what I should be looking for ingredient wise? Im under the impression low carbs, high fiber and high protein however this seems to be a tough combo. Currently im looking at Wellness core reduced fat, Ketona, and Orijen.

Thanks for the help Kal.
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