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  #11  
Old 04-28-2008, 10:27 AM
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Kiska'smom Kiska'smom is offline
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Hi Dolly,

Sorry that I wasn't back before now to look at your numbers. I do not have a fax, so I am glad that Natalie was able to post your test results. The high values on your blood work are not very far out of whack. (The ALT and ALKP) Usually, with Cushing's, they are 3 to 4 times as high as normal, especially with regard to the ALKP. However, if I am reading your LDDS right (and I'm not completely sure that this is LDDS or HDDS), the results (if LDDS) indicate regular Cushing's. A post 8 hour result above 1.5 would be indicative of Cushing's. The ACTH, I won't comment on, because I'm not sure what the reference range is for that. I think that it would be a good idea to have one of the experts from CanineCushings.net look at your numbers, too! They are far more knowledgeable than I am! However, if your pup has regular Cushing's disease with clinical symptoms, melatonin and FSO with lignans, will not help. These are treatments for Atypical Cushings, where the production of cortisol is not an issue. Regular Cushings is caused by the over-production of cortisol from the adrenal glands, and the body's inability to suppress that production. It can be caused by either a small tumor in the pituitary gland or an adrenal tumor. Both kinds of tumors result in the production of excess cortisol. Two medications are usually used to suppress the adrenal function: Lysodren or Trilostane. I would strongly recommend that you look into the CanineCushings.net site, because they have information pages that can give you much more information about Cushings and its treatment options. Hope that I gave you a little help!

Denise, hi! It sounds like you have already had the Full Adrenal Panel done at the University of Tennessee. If your pup was diagnosed with Atypical Cushing's, then the melatonin might just be helping. You did not say which of the intermediate hormones were out of range on your adrenal panel. That would be good to know, because some of them take different treatments. This is what Dr. Oliver had to say about the melatonin with regard to Kiska:

"Melatonin will definitely lower the post-stim cortisol level significantly, and frequently also has a lowering effect on progesterone levels."

Kiska's progesterone was elevated on her Full Adrenal Panel: 1.96 post stim, with a reference range of .10 to 1.5. Her stimmed cortisol was "high normal" at 171.9, with a reference range of 65.0 to 174.6.

Dr. Oliver said,

"I personally wouldn't do an "induction" with Lysodren for these modest increases in hormone levels."

So, if you are seeing an improvement in clinical signs, then maybe it would be good to monitor Reba for a while longer and see if the melatonin is doing it's work! You could certainly contact Dr. Oliver via email and ask him what he thinks with regard to your personal case. (Just include your Case # in the subject line so that he can look up your information.) Is the appetite the only difference you have seen in her behavior? What about the other symptoms?

Hugs to you both.

Jeanne and Kiska
  #12  
Old 04-28-2008, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Thank you for the reply Kiska's mom, I was looking over at the cushings forum I think it is one of the sister boards here, I could not find the values etc, So with no doubt Chief has regular cushings and the melatonin will not help or the flax essence.

I had given him 1 melatonin today thinking he may get a little more rest, but I have not seen that, plus if it isn't going to work in his system, its just not.

I guess I will take the Melatonin.

Take care
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Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
  #13  
Old 04-28-2008, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyelostit View Post
Thank you for the reply Kiska's mom, I was looking over at the cushings forum I think it is one of the sister boards here, I could not find the values etc, So with no doubt Chief has regular cushings and the melatonin will not help or the flax essence.
Hi Dolly,

Jeanne asked me to look in, I have been really busy lately and I am sorry I missed these goings on with Chief.

I know Cushy is also looking in on this board and I hope we hear from her as well.

These numbers look borderline Cushing's to me, I would get the extended panel to see where all the hormones are.

Is Chief well regualated in terms of diabetes?

Best to you and Chief. Scott
  #14  
Old 04-28-2008, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Chief is not a diabetic, he's had cushings for 2 yrs now, he was 12 at diag. I decided not to go with the treatment because of his age and the cost's involved, but he has not lost hair etc, he does alot of panting, he was at the vet for nail trim and the vet could not get over he was still going on, she told me he would die within a year without the treatment. So............who do you believe the vets? I really don't have faith in vets when it comes to the diabetes, I am not that up to date on cushings, Chief is a happy dog, he is not throwing up, his bm's are fine, his last exam was fine, he does not drink excessive water, he's getting some warts, one by his eye, his hips are starting to go he's on meloxicam for that, my older dog who passed had gotten those warts too, they just seem to get this when they get older.

With his age at 12 at the time of diag. and reading up on Lysodren etc, I did try the Ketoconzole which had him zonked, I just did not want to put him thru this, with being 12 yrs old I felt that was kinda old for Lysodren, if he had been 7-8 that would have been different. Chief is 14 now.

My other dog Niki is the diabetic.

Take care
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Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
  #15  
Old 04-28-2008, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Hi Dolly,

Ok, Iv'e got it now. There is no good reason to not try the combination of melatonin and lignans that I can see. The rate recommended for the rest of us was 3mg melatonin twice daily and 1000mg flaxseedoil (Barleans is best) or 40mg purified lignans once daily.

Your cortisol is in the near normal range and this treatment could bring that down a bit. The treatment does not have an immediate effect in most dogs, it can take up to three months for response.

In order to tell if this treatment can have an effect you need to commit to a routine for at least three months and then retest.

Hope this post is of some use.

Best to you, Chief, and Niki. Scott
  #16  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Hi Dolly,

I hope that the melatonin gave YOU some rest! Well, I see that Scott gave you some good advice! I'm glad that he was able to look at your posted numbers. I don't think that the Atypical treatment could hurt Chief. There seem to be more and more dogs with a combination of Cushing's and Atypical Cushing's diagnoses. If Chief is showing very few clinical symptoms of regular Cushings, then perhaps a little control of the intermediate hormones would add a little relief. You just never know, and again, I don't think that the melatonin and Flax Essence would do any harm. They are both inexpensive, too! I wish that I knew more; but you have both sites to help you along!

I'll be thinking about you and hoping that things are going well for both Chief and Nike!

Hugs,

Jeanne and Kiska
  #17  
Old 05-07-2008, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Thanks for the replys, I held off giving him 2 melatonins, and stopped, but if you guys think its ok to give him melatonin i will try and get the flaxseed, is it ok to do the melatonin till i get the flax essence?
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Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
  #18  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Melatonin and Flax Essence

Hi Dolly,

Yes, it is okay to give the melatonin by itself! It helps with hair loss (although it hasn't helped Kiska's rat-tail) and also inhibits aromatase and 21-hydroxylase enzymes. There will be limited control of cortisol. The Flaxseed oil with lignans or Flax Essence both help inhibit aromatase and 3-beta HSD enzymes. They also help to lower cortisol. I don't remember what intermediate hormones were high in Chief's case. The Flaxseed oil also helps with liver function, and I give it to my dogs even though they don't need it for the Cushing's.

I hope that things are going well for you and your pups!

Hugs,

Jeanne and Kiska
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