Fogel

[jpmdr111]

Hello, I rescued my dog from a hoarder back in 2007. He has become my shadow, sidekick, and during dark times of my life, my savior.

Fogel had his first bout of Pancreatitis about 5 years ago and was put on a prescription diet did great for years. About 3 years ago he started panting really hard after eating.

July 24, 2018 Fogel was Diagnosed with diabetes. He stood in front of me and emptied his bladder and was up all night drinking and peeing. My life was shook…. First thing I did was start researching low carb diet foods knowing that all the low fat foods were high in carbohydrates. I found The Honest Kitchen Human Grade Dehydrated Grain Free Dog Food wild caught fish. His blood sugar was regulated within a week and he loved the food, my wallet did not. I was using 5 units of novolin twice a day and his sugar was staying between 80 and 200. (not Knowing of this forum until today)

Fast forward to mid December and his sugars went all out of wack not to mention I was leaving for Florida in a week and he was going to a kennel for 13 days, talk about sleepless nights…..
Before I left I finally got it in the 200 range and was feeling more comfortable leaving him. My Biggest concern was keeping him somewhat level know that excess sugars could cause cataracts. I left him at the kennel and they told me if I showed them how to take his glucose test they would do it. They called me three days in a row saying the machine was giving an error code. FML! day 4 they called to tell me his morning sugar was 200, I said ok stop taking it and leave him at 8 units.

When I came back to get him on the 3rd of January his blood sugar was at 320 I gave him 8 units just to see what it was in the morning…. It was 80 at this point I didn't know what to do. It juggled for over two weeks I was up to 10 units and getting no response. I finally decided to switch food thinking that might it and started him on ruby stewbie almost immediately I started seeing things at least even out. I was getting 200’s morning and 200’s in the afternoon but was getting 100 or lower in the evening after fasting.

Tomorrow will be a week on the stew still tweaking things and trying not to overthink things.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Fogel

Being kenneled could change his use of blood sugar and insulin - stress, change in exercise and routine. But it also seems he might periodically experience instability since you had the episode before you left.

For... I’d say 98% of dogs the kind of stability you had at first never occurs. I need to check your post again to see how long diabetic (on my phone so tiny screen) but he could have had some residual insulin producing ability (honeymooning) that is now gone so his blood sugar is less stable and requires more injected insulin. Or he could just be the type of dog whose needs bounce around periodically - seen lots of those - no known reason why it occurs so you just adjust as needed.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Fogel

What breed is he and how much does he weigh?

[Raysaint]

Re: Fogel

Remember every change needs some time for the body to adjust. Making insulin and/or food changes within short periods of time will give you unpredictable numbers.

Just because numbers get a bit out of whack doesn't mean you have to change things. It happens with diabetes.
If it stays out of whack for a while, then look into why. Might not be the food or insulin.

[jpmdr111]

Re: Fogel

Fogel is a 15 pound Miniature Schnauzer, he was 17 pounds but that fish diet got him really lean. We are guessing he is around 13 and full of spunk, when levels are normal.

Everything seems to have leveled out this weekend. I was able to do a curve over the weekend and I was apparently over doing the insulin, he would get below 90 and it would shoot up over 300. I feel horrible, poor guy. My reading during the week didn't show the dip just high readings.... and I'm able to test him on my lunch break.

I'm down to 5.5 units and yesterday his readings were: 8am-178, 1pm-159, and 8pm-159 with 6 units . Today thus far we are 7am-128 (I dropped half a unit because I was worried about mid day fast) and 2pm he was at 162.

[jesse girl]

Re: Fogel

You can keep dropping the dose till you see that climb back up and if it is a bit to high you can slowly raise the dose by a half unit or even a quarter unit to fine tune the dose

good catch of some possible rebounding . I can tell jesse is spiking when her gums get really red and she gets lethargic

[Susan M]

Re: Fogel

Hi,
Sounds like you got a really good idea of what it takes to get your furbaby stable. It was amazing to me what a difference a half of unit made for my dog Max. He weighs about the same as your dog and is currently getting 5 units twice a day. It takes a while to know if the dose is right, at least a week. Meanwhile I wouldnt make any other changes until you have the insulin dialed in. Sounds like you are well on your way!

[jpmdr111]

Re: Fogel

What a roller coaster.... There are days I just can't take it!

After weeks of countless pokes, I finally figured out Fogel was rebounding... sigh.

I believe he is in what is called the honeymoon phase. We are down to 2-3 units a day, he was at 7 units for over 6 months with perfect levels. The only thing I can figure is he is producing insulin now (7 months from diagnosis)

We get three days of good levels 200 in the am, 120 ish around lunch and then bam day 3 mornings will be sky high.

I have also had to delay his insulin by an hour, If I give it to him when he eats his sugars tank then skyrocket from a rebound. This is why I think he is producing insulin, because his sugars actually drop without any insulin and then after about an hour they start to go up again. I am currently doing one cup of Stewbie dry and 2-2.5U of Novelin. He is down from 19ibs to 15 and I am concerned about his weight and the vet would like to see him gain....

I just prepared the food Daisydog is on, to see how that goes: 105g chicken breast, 45g chana dal, 55g green beans all chopped in a food processor, 20g Hills Perfect Weight, 1 tbs pumpkin

I just don't know what to do anymore, it was so easy for the first 6 months and now it a nightmare.

[jesse girl]

Re: Fogel

Its something i had to deal with Jesse diabetes from the beginning . I thought for quite awhile she was producing her own insulin because she was on such a low dose and like your dog would drop after meal . I tried delaying her shot after meal and helped a bit but it wasn't what we were looking for so i split her dose half at mealtime the other half 2 hours later which worked for her

The other factor about still producing insulin i came to the conclusion NPH insulin for jesse lasted about 16 hours so there maybe a bit of overlap of early shot with the new one so that could explain the drop after meal .

With jesse its a delicate balance if she is lower and she receives a dose her body doesnt like she will bounce up and i can usually tell from her inner lips getting red and she gets a bit lethargic .

Jesse dose has been from 6 to 8 units total for the day . Lower than a normal starting dose for her weight

Diabetes is not about being regulated and you go on cruise control . That has never occurred for jesse 9 year diabetic career . Her numbers go from 100 to 250 sometimes lower sometimes higher and that seems to work for her

[Raysaint]

Re: Fogel

Having 3 good days then a bad morning, and a bit of inconsistency is the nature of diabetes. So many other things going on in a body that we don't control.
We are trying to recreate a normal body by injecting insulin and controlling diet. I finally realized a body isn't a machine and diabetes management is about controlling clinical signs and maintaining a good range of sugar numbers for the majority of the time.
And having 6 months of stability, then a change in pattern, join the crowd. My dogs sugar pattern has changed 3 times. So we make adjustments, shoot for stability again, and see how long it lasts this time.
Diabetes will continue to surprise you. Just when you think cruise control is on, never get complacent.
I think that's why they call it "management", because we do what managers do.

The good news is you are on top of it, you stay aware of changes and make adjustments. Stay strong.

[amydunn19]

Re: Fogel

My dog, Maggie, through 9 years of diabetes, was a dog who was always on a tiny amount of insulin. We had a few times that we stopped it for a couple of days and she wouldn’t go up for 3 days. It was bizarre and every time I thought I had her figured out, she would fool me again.

I am not familiar with the Stewbie thing - It involves cooking so I couldn’t really do it and Maggie was so picky. If you can’t consistently feed the same meal with the same carb, fat and protein content every meal, a dog that is sensitive to insulin or food changes, may have problems. I would say just try to simplify and not change more than 1 thing at a time.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Fogel

We get three days of good levels 200 in the am, 120 ish around lunch and then bam day 3 mornings will be sky high.

Daisy does the same thing, almost like clockwork. Right now I've got her down to 4.5 units because all of a sudden each fasting level was creeping higher and higher and her levels were dropping too fast. In 3 months, she may need an increase or decrease.

Hang in there. You're not alone!!