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**k9diabetes** · 10-20-2009, 05:02 PM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Welcome!

Well... a Min Pin seems to pretty much mean that injections will be a challenge at first. We have a handful of folks here who know exactly the problem you're having. The good news is that they have all managed to find a situation that works for them. Kathy brought the difficult injections post forward I see and that's a good place to start. I know the Min Pin clan will chime in too.

With that low of 50, it sounds like the insulin dose is too high and the erratic blood sugar you are seeing could be rebound.

Has a curve been done to see if her food and insulin are well matched?

It could be that they are not and she's getting high blood sugar AND low blood sugar.

Please tell us more about how her blood sugar has been monitored and the results of that and any curves that have been done.

Natalie

**Mesquito** · 10-20-2009, 06:49 PM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Originally posted by Dawnh79 View Post

Name: Shylow

Diagnosed about 3 months ago

Breed: MinPin

Weight: 18.5

Insulin: NPH 7 units twice a day.

Eating W/D. Doesn't want to eat in the mornings but loves to in the evenings most of the time.

Meter.....I bought one but haven't been able to obtain blood yet. Any suggestions. It has been a struggle. Her levels are erratic. Sometimes off the charts and the other day it went as low as 50. The vet is going to consult a specialist.

She also fights the insulin shots to the max. She yelps before it even happens. Need suggestions for that also. Please.

I know your problem. We have a Shih Tzu and no way could we get a blood sample at her lip or ear. We now get a blood test at the side of where her tail starts. We shave a spot (Her Tail hides the shaved spot when she is happy as it is up over her back and wagging) No problem now. We found that if you warm the spot with a wash rag and kneed the area it helps. I use the lance by hand and poke her two or three times very close togeather then kneed it again. A small drop of blood will develop. We use a IPET meter that seems to work well.

As for shots we give them on her upper back just below the neck, No problem as she knows she will get a treat after the shot. Be sure you pinch the spot and insert the needle so it dont go in at a steep angle. The needle should be horizontal to her back when it enters the pinched area.

**Dawnh79** · 10-20-2009, 07:32 PM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Thank you both for the response. She has had many curves. About 3 weeks ago, we had one and it was pretty good. That is why the vet let us go 3 weeks before doing another one. We were going everyday for 2 weeks. Had to take a credit card called Care Credit to pay for the expense. We just went yesterday. She didn't eat well yesterday morning and the vet gave her the full 7 units after a very small feeding. That is when the level went down to 50. When first diagnosed, it was over 700. Yesterday morning it was over 500 before the insulin shot. They had to give her more food. We would drop her off at the vet at 8 and pick her up at 5:30. Now the vet called again today and she gave her a mild anxiety drug. 3 hours after we gave it to her she was pretty loopy. This is for the shots. Supposed to give it to her 30 minutes before each shot. Might have to cut that in half. Anyway, hopefully will know more tomorrow. I will read the article on the shot forum. Appreciate all the help. Finally get to speak with people with the same situation.

**k9diabetes** · 10-20-2009, 09:36 PM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Just have a moment but wanted to put up the diagram of all the different places you can give injections. Where you give it can affect how the insulin is absorbed so you have to be careful when you change injection sites. But eventually many of us moved away from the scruff to other areas. The skin on Chris' scruff got very thick very quickly so we moved down to his side just behind his front leg.

This is from BD's generally good website on canine diabetes, where there are injection tutorials.

http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.a...t=7001&id=7394

The tail stick method is a really good one for smaller dogs. You can see a picture tutorial of that and other methods here if you haven't seen them already: www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html.

I am not crazy about the idea of giving the sedative, especially since it made her so loopy. I think if you read the threads and advice here and then start experimenting with Shylow and what works best for her, you will be able to give the shots without the sedative.

Every dog is different so you take all of the methods suggested and what you know about Shylow - what kinds of things she hates and what kinds of things she tolerates - and try what you think might work.

Your approach makes a big difference - I know it's difficult but do try to be as calm and matter of fact as you can be since your dog will pick up on your emotional state.

You will get there. I know you will. I don't know anyone who hasn't eventually found a way to give their dogs injections. Sometimes they do have to use a muzzle.

Glad to hear the BG of 50 was an anomaly - kind of scary that they didn't decrease the insulin when she didn't eat.

Would you mind posting the results of her last curve?

I had the vet fax me the results of all of Chris' tests so I could keep track of things myself and found that really helpful, along with a journal of his food and insulin dose.

I'm anxious for Pam to stop by and share Pip's story with you. Pip is a Min Pin... I believe she muzzle him for his shots.

Hang in there - you will get there!

Natalie

**minpinlover** · 10-21-2009, 02:44 PM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Welcome Shylow! As a fellow min pin owner I know how much of a challenge you're facing. Daygo was diagnosed in April, and so far we have been very lucky to not have too much of a problem giving his shots, but he does have his days! Daygo is pretty mellow for a min pin but usually my husband holds him while I give his injections. If I have to I have been able to give them to him by myself. Do you use any treats for her after her shot? We've been using green beans and he knows when he sees the container it's shot time. Daygo picks up on my stress very easily, so I talk to him the whole while I'm giving the shot and try to keep the same routine every time. Have you tried to take a blood sample from the carpal pad (on the back of the front leg)? That seems to work best for me. I usually get what I need with one poke.
You've found a wonderful forum with lots of knowledgeable, helpfull people.
It does get easier and I hope you'll find a method that works for you and Shylow!

**eyelostit** · 10-25-2009, 12:21 AM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Hi and Welcome Shylow and Dawn

Any luck with the meter yet? It takes time, I know.....

dolly & Niki

**pgcor** · 10-30-2009, 08:35 AM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Hi Dawn and Shylow!

Sorry it's taken me so long to welcome you - but as a Min Pin owner they do keep us on our toes!!!!!

My Pip is a handful and had to be muzzled for just shy of a year (I think) before he got used to it.

Here's what I do and maybe it will work for you......I put Pip on top my countertop with a plate of two diabetic snacks broken into pieces - in front of him.

I make him lie down and then slide the cookies in front of him. While he's eating, I lift the scruff of his neck (and he always, always, always stops and looks at me) then I inject. That area seemed to give us the least problems. He goes back to eating now after I'm done and hasn't attempted to bite for over a year now.

He comes willingly for his shots and only one of us is necessary to do that.
We're still working on getting blood - but I have been successful once in getting it from a rough patch on the back of his front leg (minpin lover describes it better than I). In order to get blood from his leg we have had to wrap him up like a taco with his one leg sticking out.

Give yourself some time to get used to this too! Dealing with this disease doesn't come naturally to some of us. But I can asssure you Shylow will survive any mistakes you THINK you've made. I've missed so many shots and have only gotten blood once that you'd think Pip would have suffered! But he's been diagnosed for two years and still has his sight and has now gained some weight!

Good Luck Dawn - please keep us posted!

Hugs from Pam and Pip (the devil dog)

**Dawnh79** · 11-03-2009, 10:44 AM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Hello again. First I want to thank all of you for your comments. The shots are better. Sometime I just have to sneak up on her and give it to her in her rump which was approved by the vet. Here are her numbers last week.

10am HI
11am 521
1 pm 407
3pm 307

Obviously, this isn't right. She is supposed to go back tomorrow for another curve. He isn't eating well especially in the morning. I am even cooking chicken in water and adding it to her food. She has still very thirsty and has again starting to go on the floor. That had stopped at some point. Finally got blood out of the ear but no since putting her through it since she is going tomorrow for the curve. Just keeping everyone up to date.

**pgcor** · 11-03-2009, 12:28 PM

Re: Welcome Shylow!

Hi Dawn and Shylow!

I certainly can relate to your experiences. The food type and amount have to match the insulin. If you add food, chances are Shylow will need more insulin. So it's important to keep the food amount and insulin units exact while you're trying to get her regulated.

This is the hardest part, because I know you're anxious to get her feeling better.

I had to take Pip for several curves in one month at the beginning of his diagnoses to make sure we were getting the insulin amount right. If you keep everything the same between curves you should get there in no time!

Hang in there Dawn - I think you should be very proud of yourself for getting blood on here this early in the game!

Pam

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