Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help- New to Diabetes

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help- New to Diabetes

    July 19th, Monday- I took my 14 yr old boo-boo to the Vet for excessive drinking and urinating. The Vet took Chase to a back room and I waited about 10 minutes before the Vet came back in the room to talk to me. He said I had a diabetic dog and I would need to leave Chase to come back at 4pm. I went back to the Vet at 4pm and the Vet told me Chase was dehydrated so they give him fluids and that he also had a UTI. He gave me a prescription for Cipro 250mg. He said Chase had a BG reading of 500 that morning at it was down to 257. He then showed me how to give Chase an injection and prescribed Humulin 15units, twice a day, to be given while Chase was eating. He also gave me a syringe to put Karo syrup in incase Chase started showing signs of low blood sugar. I had no idea what all this meant at the time but thankfully had found your website this evening.

    - July 20th, Tuesday- Per the Vets instructions, Tuesday morning at 7:30am, I fed Chase his Proplan (canned chicken & potato entree). Chase only ate about 3/4 cup. I gave him the 15 units of the Humulin and within 5-10 minutes, he started shivering, not convulsing just slight shivers. He was extremely lethargic and I got nervous and gave him the Karo syrup on the gums. Within a few minutes, the shivering stopped. I called the Vet and he told me to bring Chase in at 5pm. Chase looked very sickly until 1pm in the afternoon. At 5pm, the Vet took a BG reading and it was 108. He laughed and said "so now what do you want to do?" I said, I don't know, you are the doctor, you tell me". He said, "ok, well, lets give him one shot a day of 12 units. I took Chase home, at 7:30pm, fed him brown rice, chicken and green beans (read online the home cooked food may be better).

    - Wed, July 21st- I fed Chase at 7:30am and gave him his injection of the new dose at 12units. Chase again, looked very sickly and was lethargic until early afternoon. He did not get the shivers. Late in the afternoon, I called the Vet and told him Chase was still very lethargic and looking sickly. He told me to bring him in the next morning, to feed Chase and give him his injection.

    - Thursday, July 22nd- Chase gets up easy this day, eats at 7:30am and I give him his injection at 7:40am. Chase is now acting like a puppy. Eyes look good and alert, not like he is intoxicated like over the past few days. I am hopeful and get him in the car to take him to the vet. The Vet takes his BG at 8:10am and the reading is 300. The Vet instructs me to bring him back at 5pm. Per the Vets instructions, I take him back at 5pm and Chase's reading is 191. I ask the vet at this time, if Chase's reading earlier in the day could be high because he is anxious. He laughed and said "only humans get anxious when going to the vet" He said "dogs don't get anxious". I am very concerned at this point because I have been reading your forum each night this week. I know at this point, the dosage should start low and then increased. I know dogs get anxious during vet visits. When Chase had to stay the whole day on Monday, he chewed thru his harness which was not an easy task given he is missing quite a few teeth. The icing on the cake with my lack of confidence with this vet is that I asked him if Chase could take the Novolin (generic Humulin). He said he did not know there was a generic. I also asked him if I should test at home. He was very opposed to this and said it would be cruel to test a dogs lip, he never heard of such of thing. I have read how much you all love your babies and know, you would not recommend this testing site if it hurt them. I am really scared at this point, wondering if I have given him too much insulin all week.

    - Thursday EVENING, I decide to go get a BG testing device. I got the OneTouch Ulta 2 and was able to obtain a reading at 10pm. The reading was 350.

    -Friday, July 23rd- Chase woke up not feeling good at all this am and refused to eat. he also, wet all over my bed. When I let him go outside, he urinated A LOT and drank excessive water (about 3 cups, I am measuring water too). I am anxious because I know I need to give him his insulin. Chase does not look like he feels good and keeps fidgeting- sitting and then re sitting. At 9:30am, I finally put the brown rice, green bean and chicken mixture in his mouth and he begrudgingly chews and swallows. I got him to eat about 3/4 of cup. I give him an injection but only 7units. I tried really hard to get a BG check but he would not let me. I got one sample but it was not enough blood. Because he does not feel good, I will try later. I am going to try the twice a day Humulin at the 7 units. I was able to get a reading on his BG two hours after he ate and had his injection. The reading is 284 at 12pm. He has been sleeping since this morning.

    Any advice, I know I need to find a more experienced vet but I want to do my research this time and find someone good to spare Chase unnecessary anxiety. He is old at 14yrs and has major anxiety when I leave him.

    Breed- Terrier/Schnauzer Mix (he is about the size of a Cocker Spaniel)
    Weighs- 33lbs
    Diet- Brown rice, chicken, greenbeans, very small amount of chicken broth (low sodium)
    Diagnosed July 19th
    Humulin started at 15units x 2 a day, then 12 units once a day, now-trying 7 units twice a day

    Sincerely,
    Natalie
    natalie & chase

    14 years old, 33lbs; diagnosed July 19, 2010; Home Cooked Food - 2x a day; 7 Units Humulin 2x a day

  • #2
    Re: Help- New to Diabetes

    Chase is a lucky dog; he has a real Natalie who REALLY watches over him and does her homework.

    I do hope you can find a more sympathetic vet - one who actually communicates; there is just nothing like it, when you find a good vet teammate. Seems your current vet lacks at least some knowledge of dog behavior, or perhaps just wanted to reassure you or something, but that doesn't reassure Chase.

    Good job on your choice of meter, and good job learning to test! That is just fabulous!

    7 units divided by 33 pounds is about .21 units per pound, which should be a good starting dose for insulin given twice a day, 12 hours apart, after the dog eats (or while the dog eats; I prefer after for a newly diagnosed diabetic in case the dog loses the meal).

    I ended up, myself, always waiting 30 minutes after Kumbi ate, and that worked out fine for us.

    That start of 15 units twice a day seems far too high, and I believe Chase indicated that; you did right to get Karo into him right away.

    Novolin isn't a generic; there is no generic insulin; it's a different brand from Humulin, though it's very similar. It seems most dogs could change to Novolin-N from Humulin-N easily enough. If you're thiking of price, Walmart is about to change from selling Novolin-N as "ReliOn Novolin-N" to selling Humulin-N as "ReliOn Humulin-N" - each of those at a reduced price - but the Novolin-N would now cost more - no special price on it. I think the target date for the change is September. Others can tell you more about that than I can.

    Personally, I think you're doing a super-good job, and you have my heartiest congratulations!

    I'll be watching for your further reports, and cheering you on. Ask any questions that occur to you, and, as you can see from reading the forum, somebody will surely jump in to offer a helping hand.

    Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:18:46 (PDT)
    http://www.coherentdog.org/
    CarolW

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help- New to Diabetes

      Hello Carol W! I was so thankful and relieved to see a reply to my note. I have been on edge all day from taking matters into my own unknowledgable hands!! My intuition just told me something was very wrong this week. When Chase had the 300 reading at the Vets yesterday morning, he said we would have to give him two shots a day. When I took him back for his 5pm reading which was 191, I asked the vet about the two shots a day, he said "he has a reading of 191, he does not need two shots a day". He said we may could do a certain test, and then he put his head down and kept trying to think of the test and I said "a curve" and he said "yes, that is it, a curve". I was thinking myself, this is not good... The vet is an ederly gentleman, very sweet but my gut is telling me, he may not have solid experience for treating the diabetes.

      Interesting, the one good reading he had at 108 was when the injections were given 12 hrs apart although clearly, the dosage was probably too high since Chase got those shivers.

      I would be terribly lost if it were not for this forum. I have been reading up to midnight every night this week. Do you know anything about the bladder leakage? Chase leaked A LOT last night. I am also worried about Chase's age, does it matter what age they are when they are diagnosed? Poor Chase has slight cataracts, fatty lumps all over his belly, one in his neck and one in a leg. He cannot hear that good either (. I hope he is not too old to be regulated...Fortunately, I work from home and can observe him 24/7.

      Again, thank you so much!! I really appreciated the information on the Novolin.
      natalie & chase

      14 years old, 33lbs; diagnosed July 19, 2010; Home Cooked Food - 2x a day; 7 Units Humulin 2x a day

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help- New to Diabetes

        Welcome to you and Chase!

        I'm SOOO impressed that you are already trying to home test and actually got at least one reading. When I started testing Annie I had a terrible (for me, not so much for her) time. I occasionally still have to try twice to get a drop, but it has become almost automatic for us. Lots of great information on this web site on all topics of diabetes.

        I agree with CarolW that 7iu X2 sounds like a good starting point for a 33 pound dog, especially since you are going to home test. You will probably have to increase the dose, but remember to increase slowly. We all want to get our "kids" to a good spot as soon as possible, but it's important to give each dose a few days to settle-in.

        Another thing to keep in mind is that one or two readings / day probably isn't enough data. You said Chase was 284 at noon (+2 hours after food & shot). Again, since you are getting to be a testing expert , I would recommend another test at +4 and every two hours IF POSSIBLE. That is called a "curve" and you should see how low Chase actually goes.

        Consistency is so important. Same amount of food and insulin at the same times each day (12 hours apart). Most doggie snacks can wreck a curve, so try to withhold. Some of us use broccoli, cauliflower or green beans as snacks!

        I'll be watching your posts and good luck.
        Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help- New to Diabetes

          Hi Natalie & Chase,

          Just a real quick note as I am doing a curve today and dont have much time for a long reply before I need to test Alfie again but Alfie can sometimes have a bladder leakage when his blood sugar is on the high side. He doesn't do this when he sugar is in a normal range so it may be something to to with that.

          I know this is all a lot to take in but I do think another vet is your best option as it really sounds like he his just not all that clued up on diabetes.

          I dont think a dog is ever too old to have treatment and get regulated. Reading up on all the information on here was a total godsend for Alfie and I.

          Allison, Alfie & Skye
          Alfie- 11 1/2yrs. 8kg diagnosed June 2008. Insulin - NPH, Novorapid & Caninsulin - a work in progress! Dx left brain neuro focal lymphoma 4th Dec 2012, still fighting on!.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help- New to Diabetes

            Craig and little Annie, thank you so much.

            Per your suggestion, I just tried to test Chase. Unfortunately, I screwed up again! I think I hurt him because he yelped. I am doing the lip testing. The test said an Error 4 which means I did not get the blood on the strip right or there was something wrong with the test strip. This is really frustrating. I was trying to hold off on the curve until Chase got use to me testing and more importantly, until I got better at it. Do you think it is ok to watch his behavior as a monitoring system until I can test better? Since he yelped this time, I feel terrible... Maybe I should give the tail a try? Do you know if the nerve endings are sensative on the tail? How do you test Annie?

            warm regards,
            natalie
            natalie & chase

            14 years old, 33lbs; diagnosed July 19, 2010; Home Cooked Food - 2x a day; 7 Units Humulin 2x a day

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help- New to Diabetes

              Hi Allison, Alfie & Skye, thank you for the reply although you were so busy doing your curve. I hope to do this with Chase once I become better at testing. Can you tell me how you are testing? I am nervous testing Chase on the lip and not very good at. He yelped at me a few minutes ago after I stuck him. I think I hurt him this time. How do you test your baby? For some reason, I keep getting error reads, not enough blood, blood is not on the strip right or the strip is bad... I am thinking about doing the tail to see if we have more luck? Any suggestions? If you have a chance, tomorrow is fine to answer.
              natalie & chase

              14 years old, 33lbs; diagnosed July 19, 2010; Home Cooked Food - 2x a day; 7 Units Humulin 2x a day

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                I think I'm one of the few that test on the ear. Annie, being small, and my thick fingers don't do the lip .

                If you only gave 7iu this morning you are probably safe from hypoglycemia, but testing results = knowledge. You really can't increase the dose until you know what Chase's lowest number is. I see what you are saying and a curve could be held off until you are on this, 7iu, dose for a few days.
                Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                  Hi Natalie,

                  It took me a little over a month to get the testing right with Ladybug...and I do the lip. I got a lot of error readings in the beginning and I know I also wasted 50 or more strips the first week trying to get it right!

                  There are no nerve endings in the lip area, unless you are getting too close to the gums. Once you roll the lip back, it should be the outer edge. But hey, you've done it already and you'll do it again!! Don't give up! I wouldn't concentrate too much on a curve right now - if you can test 3 times a day for a few days to start (until you're comfy with testing), I think you'll be fine. Then jump into a full-blown curve!!

                  If you tense up when it's time to test, Chase can sense it and reacts appropriately - danger, danger!!! Don't hold your breath, breathe naturally! You may not realize it, but at this early stage of learning to test, you are holding you breath! I know I did!

                  Sing a song, talk to him about anything, he won't care! Just have a relaxed tone to your voice. But, don't use any "key" words that he knows that would get him excited. Also reward him after the "lipstick" with a treat - I use a green bean, piece of cooked broccoli or a piece of cucumber. That way, if he knows he gets a treat, he'll be more receptive.

                  You'll get the hang of it! In no time you'll be saying "hey, it's a piece of cake"!

                  Linda'Ladybug

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                    Linda, thank you very much for the encouragement, I have read a lot of your post this past week. The testing is really frustrating, especially since I know Chase is not having a good day. I will keep trying until I get it right though but want to give Chase a little break. He has been running on the high side but has not drank water excessively since this morning, his last reading at noon was 284. Do you know if the readings we get from the human meters is good with the human strips? In other words, when I am fortunate enough to get a reading, can I trust the reading is somewhat accurate?

                    warm regards,
                    natalie
                    natalie & chase

                    14 years old, 33lbs; diagnosed July 19, 2010; Home Cooked Food - 2x a day; 7 Units Humulin 2x a day

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                      Hi Natalie,

                      I do Alfie's lip, we have only been testing for a couple of months as vets here in scotland dont really get us to home test. I could see the benefits of it as soon as I joined here.

                      I always test Alfie when he is lying down on his side in his bed - to start with as it was a totally new experience for us both he was not all that pleased with me doing it but I found talking to him through it and keeping him calm (it helped me stay calm as well) done the trick for us. I tend to test on his lip sort or opposite his canine tooth which is where he gives me the biggest drop of blood. Alfie gets a small bit of boiled chicken after it even if I dont get enough blood to get a reading. Its worth just trying it without the strips and meter until ur pretty good at getting a reasonable drop of blood - saves wasting strips and gets you both a bit more used to it.

                      Alfie doesn't really like having his tail touch so I have avoided trying him there and his ears have never given up a drop of blood big enough to test for us but every dog is different and finding out what works for you both is a bit of trial and error. I also tried Alfie's dew pads but got nowhere with them either.

                      Until you manage with the blood testing you can always try the urine strips to get an idea of his numbers as if he is higher than 180 it is said that it will show up in his urine. Now I cant say what they are called as I dont use them but I know that others on here do so I will have a look and try to find out but its something to consider while you both settle into the blood testing.

                      I have a feeling there is something more I wanted to add but my mind has gone totally blank so I will leave it for now and post again once I remember.

                      My best advice is big deep breaths and know that your doing this for him and not too him as some 1 wise on here said to me.

                      Allison
                      Alfie- 11 1/2yrs. 8kg diagnosed June 2008. Insulin - NPH, Novorapid & Caninsulin - a work in progress! Dx left brain neuro focal lymphoma 4th Dec 2012, still fighting on!.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                        Your reading on a human meter will be slightly lower than with an animal meter.
                        Alfie- 11 1/2yrs. 8kg diagnosed June 2008. Insulin - NPH, Novorapid & Caninsulin - a work in progress! Dx left brain neuro focal lymphoma 4th Dec 2012, still fighting on!.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                          Hi Natalie! Welcome to you and Chase!

                          Sorry you have been on such a rollercoaster.

                          The starting dose the vet gave Chase was too high at almost half a unit per pound. A lot of dogs need a quarter of a unit per pound or less and one quarter of a unit per pound is the most I like to see them started on.

                          So a quarter unit per pound for a 33 pound dog is 8.25 units. So I think 7 units is a good place to go down to.

                          NPH basically never lasts more than 12-14 hours. So on one injection a day of 12 units his blood sugar was coming down and quite possibly going too low in the middle of the day. But then at night it was undoubtedly rising much higher without any insulin. Which is why he seemed more perky in the morning before getting too large of a dose of insulin.

                          The urine leakiing is probably an issue of his blood sugar and will stop once it is in a better range for the entire day. The UTI also can cause this... did the vet do a sensitivity test on the bacteria in the urine to make sure that the Cipro would take care of it?

                          If the Cipro is not the right antibiotic, then you could see more leaking until something properly clears the UTI.

                          A couple of ideas about lip testing...

                          If you look at my video of testing Chris on the lip at www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html (it's a big file so takes time to download), you will see that I tested a little inside of the edge of the lip but quite a long way from the gums. I also found that the place that bled the best was from the canine tooth back an inch or two. Too far forward or too far backward and I ddn't get a good blood drop.

                          Also you might dial back the lancing device if you are using one.

                          Also, some of the lancing devices come with very fine lancets that don't do a good job of producing blood. We used the Accuchek Softclix lancing device and much preferred it to the ones that came with the meters.

                          Although Chris is lying on his stomach in the video, I actually had him lie on his side to test his blood sugar. It was too difficult to video it that way and I would test him in any position if need be, but I preferred to have him lie on his side so the lip was a horizontal surface. I'd dry it well with a bit of paper towel and then I put one finger on each side of the spot I was going to lance and pulled the spot a little bit taut. And then I applied a little bit of pressure with the lancing device.

                          Do not worry if your technique is not yet perfect. I was TERRIBLE at it at first - hilarious actually. I was nervous, Chris would fidget, the meter would time out... we had a LOT of failed tests at first. But we both got better at it and by the end I could fill three different meters with one drop of blood. It's a skill that takes practice.

                          Don't practice so much you frustrate either Chase or you.

                          Try it once or twice and then set it aside for later in the day or the next day. You want it to be stressfree for everyone.

                          You're doing a great job of taking over Chase's care and doing a wonderful job of it.

                          At this early stage, I wouldn't try to get him below 200. It takes time for the body to adjust. See if you can stay at 7 units twice a day for at least five days to give him time to give you a long term response to that dose.

                          The OneTouch Ultra is typically around 30-50 points lower than actual blood sugar but it varies from meter to meter and dog to dog. For now, it's not really an issue whether the blood sugar is 284 or 324. You want to focus on trends, not so much on individual numbers.

                          Natalie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                            Although you asked Linda about the human meters, I'll give you my understanding.

                            It's recommended that you run a comparison test at your vet office, if possible. You test the way you normally test (lip?) and compare the results to how they test. I BELIEVE most people see their human meter / strips read about 30 - 50 points low at the low end and a greater difference near the high end. I personally don't care too much if the high number is 300 or actually 400 because they are both high.
                            Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help- New to Diabetes

                              Natalie,
                              Thank you very much for your reply! As you can see, I was able to post )

                              I have no idea what the Vet did to test Chase's urine for the UTI. Is there a better antibiotic for him to be on rather than Cipro? His drinking excessively seems to be more in the mornings than at night so I think you are right on, he is going way down after the morning insulin and then up at night. I know there are some human urine strips to determine the white blood cell count for UTIs, think those would work on a little doggie? Just to make sure the Cipro is working...

                              I think we the BG testing, tomorrow morning I will try again but use the lancet myself instead of the lancet that came with the OneTouch Ulta2. I did see where you had recommended the SoftClix and I bought those but thought I would have to go back out and buy a lancet device that would fit the SoftClix lancets. The last time I tried to test, a lot of blood came out and that is when he yelped. I must have gone too far down. I will watch your video again. I did watch it twice before I started testing but that was yesterday. I have actually watched a bunch of different ones- ear, paw, tail and lip ). Maybe it would be a good idea to watch the video and then test, just to give me more confidence. It does not take a long time for me to download, I have a wireless connection, maybe that helps.

                              Everyone has been truly wonderful this afternoon and evening, it is really amazing and incredible to meet other animal lovers and diabetic patients too!

                              Warm regards,
                              natalie e.
                              natalie & chase

                              14 years old, 33lbs; diagnosed July 19, 2010; Home Cooked Food - 2x a day; 7 Units Humulin 2x a day

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X