Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

[dominosmom]

Hi everyone. My dog was diagnosed July 2012 with diabetes and we put him on Caninsulin (Canada) as it was a strong recommedation from the vet at the time. He was managing fairly well on 2 doses of 12 units a day. Recently his numbers haven't been good. We did a full blood panel to see if there were indications of other problems. According to the vet, she was quite pleased with the results so she felt like he just needed an increase. She was told by an internal medicine specialist that some dogs go through a 'honeymoon phase' and may still produce some insulin and then it can stop all together.

Anyway, we've increased his does to 14 units twice a day to see what happens. Caninsulin is not cheap and obviously the increased does gets more expensive as you get less out of a vial. I am thinking we may need to switch to human insulin as it's much more affordabe. I was wondering if anyone has made the switch from Caninsulin or Vetsulin to one of the human insulins and how your dog is doing now? I'm a bit nervous about doing the switch.

[Cabindream]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

My vet started us out right away on Humulin N. It seems to be working . . . but I dont any anything to compare it to. . . . Good luck!

[jesse girl]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

hi and welcome

for us in the states the change to nph was a no choice because it was going to be removed off the market

my jesse was not on vetsulin very long and it was early in her diagnosis

remember nph uses a different syringe which i think in most cases is cheaper you can get them with !/2 unit markings which is very beneficial in slowing down the dose adjustments when getting close to the range you are looking for

its always a good idea to reduce the dose when trying something new and maybe by 25 percent then if need be you can work your way back up by 1/4 to 1/2 unit sometimes larger depending on the dose and situation do a complete curve to evaluate a dose adjustment and thats based on the lowest number that you see

sometimes erratic blood sugar can point to an overdose situation with big swings in blood sugar

blood sugar can change for many reasons and its expected its not static that why blood testing at home is so beneficial to catch a change before it becomes problematic

most on the forum figure out how to stabilize things with a little help from the members maybe pointing in the best direction but in the end the individual caretaker has to do the detective work vets can help but just limited with the time spent to get a clear picture

[CraigM]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

As Jesse Girl said, most of us in the States were forced to switch from Vetsulin when it was removed from sale here. Most switched to a NPH insulin, either Novolin-N or Humulin-N.

I agree Vetsulin / Caninsulin is spendy compared to NPH. Even if the vial cost the same, you would get 2.5 times more units of insulin in a normal 10ml vial.

Annie was on Vetsulin for a little over a year, but I was still learning how to treat her. She is doing fine on NPH (sometimes need to add a bit of "R" (Novolin-R), but that's a different story).

As Jesse Girl mentioned, be sure to use the correct syringe if you switch.

Craig

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

Hi there, wondering if a full 12 hr BG curve test was run. That is the first place I would start with a diabetic dog whose numbers have changed. I also run curves prior to increases, just to be sure that the pup isn't dropping too low at any point during the day. Right now I am trying to correct a sharp drop in my pups numbers 3 hrs. after her dose. If I was only going on spot checks I would probably miss it. She has dropped anywhere from 150- 400 points (she was pretty high that day). As you can see if I was treating the high number and didn't know about the lower ones I could get in a lot of trouble by increasing.

I can't speak to the different insulin question. I only know I would probably spend a lot more for a vial if I thought it would make management of Ruby better....oh no, wait- did that and that didn't work either.

We keep trying.

Tara

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

Hi there,

I have two diabetic dogs. One is on caninsulin - we attempted to switch her to NPH at one point - but she was allergic. So we stayed the course....we are in the US so we then had to order from Canada. (yes - super expensive - $95 a bottle and it only lasted 3 weeks given Soaphie's dosage). Now, online Canada pharmacies that once shipped Caninsulin to the US are no longer doing so. I now have to get it from the UK....www.viovet.com.

At viovet.com is it $21 a bottle!!!!!! Yes - $21 a bottle.

So - if you try to move to NPH and it doesn't work out - you do have another option - mail order for a BIG savings.

Good luck!

Tami

[farrwf]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

If you're close to the border, you could slip over to a Walmart and load up on the ReliOn Novolin N for like $24.88 a vial.

In addition to being expensive, looks like it;s hard to come by.

Out of curiosity, I checked out Caninsulin at 77 Canadian Pharmacy and found this.

Phone Toll Free 1.800.545.1106

BRAND: Caninsulin NOTICE regarding CANINSULIN U.S. Name:
Due to unforeseeable demand and inability to obtain sufficient
supply, no new orders will be accepted at this time. Please
expect continued delays on the delivery of this item

[dominosmom]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for your feedback. I've had some computer issues so just getting back on the site. It did seem like Domino needed an increase, but not as much as the vet originally recommended. He was getting much better numbers the first few days and then last Sunday I did a full 12 hour curve and he went from 16.5 at 7:30am down to 3.2 at 7:30pm with no increases throughout the day. Everytime is checked him his numbers just kept going lower. He is now on 12-13 units depending on his BG readings. I am still considering the switch to NPH, but am nervous for some reason. I get the Caninsulin straight from the vet so it's not hard at all to get it, just expensive. They sell the 2.5 vials at $10 per bottle and I maybe get 4-5 days of it. So if he needs to go higher again, I will get less than that. When you add the food, BG strips and needles, it adds up.

My vet suggested we start with Novolin-N and do 75% of his current dosage of Caninsulin so that would be 9 units twice a day.

Anyone have feedback about their experiences with Novolin?

[jesse girl]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

i am sure you vet suggested the syringes are different from caninsulin to novolin

i think the recommendation is good from your vet and a good place to start

most on the forum especially in the states use novolin because most have access to wallmart and get it for about $25.00 per vial

[CraigM]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

i am sure you vet suggested the syringes are different from caninsulin to novolin

i think the recommendation is good from your vet and a good place to start

most on the forum especially in the states use novolin because most have access to wallmart and get it for about $25.00 per vial

Big emphasis! the syringes for Novolin-n are different than for Caininsulin. Be 100% sure you know the difference.

[dominosmom]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

Yes thanks. I'm aware the needles are different. My vet talked with me about both kinds of insulin right at the beginning to decide which one we would use and showed me examples of the 40u and 100u needles.

Are there any other differences I should be aware of? Like how long it lasts, do i still give 2 shots a day 12 hours apart, etc?

[jesse girl]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

same procedure 2 shots for my jesse her curve remained the same between the 2 insulin's but she was not on vetsulin very long

craig maybe able to give his impressions i believe his pup was on it for some time

[CraigM]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

Yes thanks. I'm aware the needles are different. My vet talked with me about both kinds of insulin right at the beginning to decide which one we would use and showed me examples of the 40u and 100u needles.

Are there any other differences I should be aware of? Like how long it lasts, do i still give 2 shots a day 12 hours apart, etc?

Most inject "N" twice a day. It's been about 4 years since I switched from Vetsulin, but the switch was fairly straight forward. We reduced the dosage about 20% to "start over", but ended up at about the same number of units (a lot less liquid). The response, curve shape, wasn't exactly the same, but I'm sure the curve shape would be one of those "every dog is different" sort of thing.

Craig

[dominosmom]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

Thanks for the feedback. We picked up the Novolin N today. Can someone tell me what it's supposed to look like? I'm used to the Caninsulin being clear and then cloudy/milky when mixed. My bottle of Novolin N is milky looking already and the pharmacist said that is how it should look, but the instructions say to gently mix it until cloudy. I'm confused.

Also, what is the difference between Novolin N and Novolog? I went to Walmart last night and asked for Novolin N and the box they brought said Novolog and it was clear. I have read the Novolin N should be cloudy and novolog is clear.

[CraigM]

Re: Caninsulin Vs. Human Insulin

Thanks for the feedback. We picked up the Novolin N today. Can someone tell me what it's supposed to look like? I'm used to the Caninsulin being clear and then cloudy/milky when mixed. My bottle of Novolin N is milky looking already and the pharmacist said that is how it should look, but the instructions say to gently mix it until cloudy. I'm confused.

Yep, it sounds correct. Don't shake it, it can be damaged. Most roll it between their palms a dozen times to mix. I gently / slowly turn the vial end-over-end several times, and then roll it on a cloth place mat.

When I switched from Vetsulin, I took the remaining U-40 syringes and taped them together to be sure we wouldn't make the mistake and use them with the U-100 insulin.

Craig