Niki's story-- Final Chapter 1997-2010

[eyelostit]

Niki is a 11 yr old border collie/aussie/heeler mix, 51 lbs
diag 5 yrs ago.

Novalin N NPH prev used Lily NPH 9 1/2 U 2 x day

Niki's insulin wears off at 8-10 hrs so most times I check her BG at this time.

Her BG will drop between 3-6 hrs

Her food is 1/2 C cooked ground turkey, 1 C raw chopped veg's (brocolli/green beans/celery) one of these veg's or a mixture, 1/3 Nutro Senior.

At present she needs a treat at 3-4 hrs so I give 1 teaspoon of veg's 1 Tablespoon of Turkey and 4 kibble sometimes I add a 1/4 teaspoon of pumpkin plain.

Her first signs of DB were urine leaking, or she would sit on the kitchen floor and I'd see all the p she was laying in, dr. had said she was not diabetic and it was urinary incontinence she was given Detrol, she continued with Dextrol, earlier symptoms i did not know were DB symptoms were her clanging of her water bowl she was telling me she wanted water, at the time I had 4 dogs and 2 large water bowls, she was 5 yrs at that time, then i noticed the nail polish smell breath this was when she was 6 yrs and we went to vet & she was diag with DB, Niki went blind 1 yr ago, she must have started going blind and adapted to it, as i never noticed it until she jumped up on something she thought was our porch.

[ladysmom06]

Re: Niki's story

Hi Niki's mom,

Your doing a great job with Niki. I didn't know that she has been diabetic for 5 yrs. Does Niki also have cushing's or am I confusing her with another dog? Hugs to you and Niki.

[eyelostit]

Niki's new meal plan working better

This post is not for newly diagnoised pets, Niki has had diabetes for 5 yrs now, so I am used to her system, foods and insulin.

As I have tried and tried over the years with different foods, trying 3 shots a day etc. the 3 shots just made her BG go higher I did this 3 shots thing about a month ago.

So the past week what I have been doing, is mixing her meal of 1/2 Gr Turkey 3/4 veg 1/3 brown rice 1/3 Nutro Senior.

Then I only give her 1/2 of her food , set my timer for 30 min. to give shot. After shot, I set timer again for 30 min and give the rest of her food. She has had great readings, 146, 165, 135 I don't know how to act.

After 4-5 hrs I give about 5 pieces kibble or a teaspoon of veg's and very little rice.

With Niki usually before at fast she would be a 215 or even a 300, then i would feed, this just made the BG go higher, and the insulin was not kicking in till 2 hours. So this resulted in her leaking pee and I had to make sure to let her out after food and 1 hr after food At times when she was over 200 or 300 before meals I would give 1 unit and wait an hour to feed, then decrease her regular shot 1 unit, but i think this just messed things up when i should of gave her the regular dose even after giving the 1 unit 1 hour before food with a hi reading.

I can sort of understand when I went to the vet and she took her BG and it was over 300 it was about 5PM, she told me not to feed her and give her 1/2 her usual insulin if her BG was not down by 10-12 hrs.

Apparently Niki digests her food fast, the BG rises and stays at that level until the insulin kicks to open the cells so the carbs could get into her system. Just like in that "dogs diet and diseses" book where she mentions the horses are waiting at the gate, until that gate rises the horse cannot run, that was a good explaination for me to understand how insulin and food works.

So I am glad this is working so far, of course we may go for a tumble again, but long as she's happy and seems ok to me is all that matters.

I don't advise anyone with newly diagnoised pets to try feeding this way, you are still learning

[eyelostit]

Re: Niki's story

My other dog has cushings, I decided not to treat him, it was a hard decision, but he's been fine, 2 years with cushings, happy dog, he is 14 now and the arthritus is bothering him and i use the meloxicam tablets for that, which helps alot,

any others who use the meloxicam liquid called Metacam where you can only buy from the vet for $80.00 to $ 90.00, you can get an rx for the meloxicam tablets, the vet's don't like to tell you that, call your pharmacy and ask what 30 meloxicam tablets cost for a month supply you'll see what I mean.

[eyelostit]

Re: Niki's story

Past 7-10 days Niki going High, not doing anything different, tonite she was a 549 before food , after food drop to 401, then I gave her the normal 9.5 units.

She has been doing fine with readings of 134- 99-120 etc.

I thought maybe its the spring weather coming, so thinking its rebound I added 1 C veg to food instead of the 3/4 cup.

Still giving her teeny amt of broc, oat at the 2-4- hr intevals

Maybe I should not of increased the veg to 2 cups but that has only been past 2-3 feedings, but that should not of raised the BG that much.

I will keep checking, getting new bottle of insulin, tho i never had a bad bottle, if high again tommorrow, I'll do a curve and if bad, off to the vet, could it be the weather change?

Any advise appreciated

[We Hope]

Re: Niki's story

Dolly,

Think I'd start with a new vial of insulin. Not sure how long you've had the present one, but we got weak insulin from Lilly at one point after they announced their discontinuance of Iletin II Lente. The old vial that had lost enough potency to need to be replaced, was more potent than their new vial. We needed to use that old one to get Lucky back in line because Iletin had to be ordered. A test of the new vial's potency said it was only about 50% potent--legal low potency for insulin is 95%.

I'd look for a new vial that's not of the same batch/lot that you have now. This should mean that if it wasn't right from the drug company, or wasn't handled properly by the distributor on its way to your pharmacy, you'd be able to eliminate that possibility by getting a vial from a different lot/batch number.

Insulin passes through a number of "hands" before it gets into ours. There's at least one "middleman" (the distributor) between the pharmaceutical company and the pharmacy. If that middleman or middlemen didn't take proper care with it, it's surely possible that there could be problems; insulin doesn't always have visual signs that there's something not right about it.

Also don't know if you've changed any meds or supplements for Niki lately. When we did some bg testing within 24 hours of Lucky taking his (in season) monthly heartworm med, we found it temporarily raised his bg's back into the blazing 500-600 range. This doesn't happen to all dogs with diabetes who take heartworm preventives, but it does happen with some and we found nothing about this in the med literature of any of the products on the market. (Our personal decision was to discontinue the medication, because Lucky's lifestyle meant he was more at risk from those high bg's each month than he was for getting heartworm.)

A while back at another board, someone posted the same periodic problem--her dog had periods of unexplained high bg's which would revert back to normal. The person had a relative who was a vet and he was at a loss for an explanation. I asked her if she was in an area where heartworm meds might be used and if she was using them--then told about Lucky's reaction. Sure enough, this dog was doing the same thing, as the unexplained high bg's were recorded after the monthly heartworm pill had been taken.

Niki may also have some allergies--it's spring and everything's coming back to life again. Those with allergies and diabetes might find that they raise their bg's.

Hope you'll let us know what you find out in your "detective work"!

[eyelostit]

Re: Niki's story

My Niki seems to be Ok again, whether it was weather change I don't know, I just think it happens once in awhile.

I adding more veg's decreased the oatmeal and some of the dogfood, with good results, i was still using the same insulin, so I think the insulin was ok.

I did get a new bottle on the weekend.

I am out of oats right now, so this week we'll go back to our normal cycle and see what happens, if so, and bg high will keep up with more veg's.

I was thinking about barley, as i had read it somewhere with receipes for dogs, maybe a husky breeder or on other board with homecooked, I'll have to check the carbs, I know oatmeal is what about 2 more carbs than brown rice.

Thanks for your input.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Niki's story

I suspect this sort of thing does happen for no particular reason in a lot of dogs and we just catch it cuz we test. Chris' insulin needs are variable. Over the weekend he was on a small-dose jag and now he's on a higher dose. I was giving him as little as 6.5 units a few days ago. Now I've giving him 7.75 to get the same blood sugar levels. Normal for him would be somewhere in between that but I haven't had to go down to 6 unit increments in a long time.

[eyelostit]

Re: Niki's story

Shes been ok lately, in 100's, i added more veg and took away the oats and some of the dry.

am fast was 120 I fed full meal - i decided no treats (usual broc + bit of kibble)
pm fast 64 lowest reading i ever got.

gave her a teeny size like under the fingernail piece of bread and 1/2 her food, delayed injection by 10 minutes, then gave balance of food, seems she does good getting 1/2 of her meal, then shot, then balance of food 1 hr after 1st meal or 45 min later. Weird.

But she always got those highs before with DCO at 3 hrs, or the lows at 3 hrs etc.

This is a constant learning process.

[eyelostit]

Re: Niki's story

Need some help with food as to her going into kennel for a few days.

Niki's had good readings past 2 weeks or so with a big rise that came out of nowhere. Insulin 9 1/2 U 2 X

She was doing a 115-122 range, then I ran out of oats, so I increased her veg's to about 1 3/4 C

So she was eating
1/2 C turkey
1 1/2 C veg broc/gr beans chopped
1/3 Nutro lite

So now her bg comes down from the 122 to an evening fast of 64 this was with no treats as I wanted to see how this meal was going.

Evening meal increased the nutro lite to about 1/2 C. decreased insulin by 1/4 unit, at about 2-3 hrs past meal I gave about 2 canidae kibble and 4 nutro lite kibble.
AM fast 84

So ok, now its goin a little too low for my comfort.

So I feed same meal, give 8 kibble about 3 hrs later, but then I have to go out, come back give teeny chunk of broc and about 4 kibble, then i forgot i gave the 2nd treat and gave about 6 kibble. Fast pre evening meal 207, now that reading was my fault. Its just the damn timing and writing it down.

So I fed deceased veg to 3/4 C added 1/4 C oats along with the 1/2 C turkey and 1/3 C Nutro, gave shot, took BG 10 min after shot get a 384 that was expected, so up she goes 177 points . Now i know tommorrows fast should be about 120-150 could be less or more, the oats will matter,

I'll give a piece of broc and 2-3 kib at 3 hrs because she has that drop in 3-4 hrs. I don't want to see a 64 again.

So somehow I gotta figure this, if I add more veg taking away the oats
the BG goes lower to a 65-100 range.

Adding the oats and decreasing the veg will give me a 122-155 which I can live with.

So now we are going in the kennel next week, they feed AM and PM and he checks on the dogs in the afternoon, so I am assuming he feeds them around 8 am. and will give treats at noon, so what snack to give? I will not be there to give a snack at 3 hrs, or 6 hrs.

So I'm trying to figure out the meals to last thru this period of time, plus the snack without her going to low or too high.

I'll see what tommorrow reading brings, I just don't know if increasing her food the veg's or oats/kibble etc. will have any effect when she hits that low period of 2 1/2 to 3 hrs.

Apparently the increase in veg's is good, but if I am not gonna be around not so good.

No doubt I am overthinking and worried, maybe just decrease the insulin to 9 units while I'm gone? I think she will still do the drop at 2 1/2 hrs.

Now I guess what I need to do is gather up all my frozen food containers and put her turkey and veg in them freeze them, and make small cups or baggies for the dry food, what about the oatmeal if I freeze it? Make it with less water?

How do I figure on the treat?

I know in AM and PM she will start her little cry that she is hungry before meal.

Geez I feel bad i have to go away, its only for 4-5 days and I'll be calling the kennel, I just hate when I have to think about all of this.

I'm going to a doctor and it was alot easier when I thought i could drive down take Niki & food sleep in my SUV see doc and drive back home or stop at a motel 1/2 way.

But damn I need to get away for a few days too, I need to sleep in so bad need sanctuary!!

Please help me clear my befuddled mind!!!


Oh the last time she went to kennel she could see in 2005, and was on the Dry DCO with the 11-11 or the 14-9 units, back then she wasn't as regulated as now and didn't get any homecooked so now its more difficult.

Added the green arrow so you could see something was up.

[We Hope]

Re: Niki's story

Dolly,

I wish I knew what to tell you! After diabetes, I only had to board Lucky once because of moving, and he was boarded with his vet, where his regular schedule was kept just as it was at home.

Think you're going to need to have a talk with whoever's in charge at the kennel, because they might be able to provide at least some of the things Niki's used to getting at home, if they know about the need in advance. A lot of kennels have morning and afternoon/evening "treat breaks".

I'm pretty certain they won't be able to follow your schedule about giving Niki half her food, then the shot, and then the rest of her food 45 minutes-1 hour later, so you'll need to think about how she does when she gets all of her morning and evening meals, and then the insulin shots. You may well want to think about less insulin for safety's sake and your peace of mind; I would ask the kennel now what they do about taking bg readings--how many times daily they would do it.

Re: letting them possibly adjust her insulin dose while you're gone, I believe I'd tell them they need to contact Niki's vet for that.

Be sure and pack some source of sugar with some instructions for them as to what to do and how much to give just in case. My feeling on this would be that I'd rather send this along, hoping it's not needed, rather than to worry constantly that they might not have something right there on hand if it is.

You know, until I read your post, I never thought about freezing oatmeal! Why not try making it the way you always do, freezing that batch, then thawing it as a "test" to see if it's too watery or not once it's thawed?

Where is Martha Stewart when you need her?

[ladysmom06]

Re: Niki's story

Hi Dolly,

SorryI don't have any advise for you but I'm hoping you can get it all sorted out before you go away. Hugs to you and Niki.

[eyelostit]

Re: Niki's story

Well I had it all figured out saved my stouffer dinner etc, trays all ready for the turkey and broc to be cooked and/or frozen, my thought was the all at one time feeding was ok, but just had to add more dog food, if I liked it or not, too afraid of the lows, and no time to go back to all dry, just cannot do the all dry too many problems.

So after it was all figured out, and I could not go, other problems set in. Ah! so now maybe in the comming months I can work with her diet maybe adding more dry, she just digests the dry dog food so fast, it don't matter what kind it is.

[We Hope]

Re: Niki's story

Dolly,

Just think of it as something you know now for when you're able to go, and don't need to stress over again.

[eyelostit]

Re: Niki's story

What I do for my little princess, my baby girl...........