Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Hello All,

Just an update on Kallie. She is now on DAY 14 of loading!! Seems like this is going forever! (Kim maybe i will beat your record of most days loading!) No change in her yet, still acts like a cushdog. My vet seems a little worried since he is on vacation now til Monday. He left me a message yesterday with his home phone number, I thought that was very nice. I guess I'm not as worried as he is. The other vet in his office has delt with cushings alot more, I might be one of his first ones??, but he consults with her, everything is going smoothly. Kallie was tested after 6 days (15) and started back up again a week later (by the time the test came back with a weekend in there). So still at the waiting game.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Tammy and Kallie (and Rosie and Pepper and Sage{kittycat}, lol)

[frijole]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Tammy,

You aren't even CLOSE to the load record so don't you fret one little bit. I'm not sharing what the record is because it would upset you unnecessarily. Just keep watching. Remind me is your dog's biggest issue drinking water or the ravenous food eater? In other words what are you looking for to determine whether Kallie is loaded.

Keep posting. Hugs, Kim

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

I guess mostly how she eats. She eats so fast she almost chokes. I have to almost hand feed her. The water amount is hard since there are 3 more mouths drinking. And when the bigger dogs play they drink more than usual. I kind of figure if she isn't acting like a dog with cushings then she must be done! Don't worry, I am putting more thought into it than that, but, the initial freaking out every day and staring at her to see if she looks different is over, lol. She got up twice last night to pee. So when she sleeps thru a night I'll get suspicious and watch how she eats too. I feed her 3 times a day so I have good opportunities to see how she is doing with that.

Tammy

[frijole]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Tammy,

I have 2 dogs so I understand. My dog was a little pig too. I noticed that she didn't eat as fast. Remember it doesn't have to be a HUGE change, they say "mom's know" so always go with your intuition and if you have ANY doubt do NOT give the lysodren ok? Better safe than sorry.

Another thing to watch if the poop. Yep you got it. Diarrhea is a sign of too much lysodren so you don't want to get to that point. Since my dog was loading for sooooooo long I went out with her every time she had to go potty to be sure she didn't have the big D. And there was snow on the ground too. Flashlight, slippers, robe, and a poking stick.

I figured out what normal consistency was and watched it slowly get softer. When it was to the point 1/2 way between normal and D I scheduled the acth. She was at 1.8 I believe. It was the only way I would have known.

So you are doing the right thing by keeping the eyes on the lookout for change. Hang in there and we are here for ya. Hugs Kim

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

I really sympathize with you. My Mia was an incredibly slow loader too! Took the best part of a month! Twice! (we had to reload once). Nearly killed me but she breezed through without a worry in the world - except that she was soooooo hungry, of course all the time her cortisol was too high.

Kallie was tested after 6 days (15) and started back up again a week later (by the time the test came back with a weekend in there). So still at the waiting game.

I wonder with that 6 day delay (weekends can be a real pain!) whether you didn't lose a bit of ground. Some dogs have adrenals that regenerate very fast once they don't have any Lysodren in their system. I doubt very much you went back to square one but she may have been somewhat higher after 6 days than she was on the day of the stim - I know my dog would have been.

Can you remind us again how big is Kallie and what is her daily dose of Lysodren? Also what food is she eating when she has her Lysodren and what is it's fat content?

The food sign can be very subtle - just not eating like they are trying to dig a hole in the bottom of the bowl with their jaws or even just being less grabby with treats - I recall a couple of people seeing that and having it be sign that the dog was loaded.

Good luck and hope you get "there" soon!

Alison

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Kallie weighs 9 lbs. She used to weigh 14 a year ago!!! She looks like skin and bones with a big round tummy. She is taking 200mg of mitotane/lysodren - its the liquid kind, boy does she love that. Its beef flavored. She takes 1ml of that because only 200mg's is actually the drug. (200mg/1ml)

I have been following her around when she goes out to go poty. He poop is still the same. It did soften up a little last time (the first week before testing) but not liquid. I will be watching that closely though. Thanks for the reminders and support!!

She is eating Wellness Senior food. Protien is 18% Fat is 10% and fiber is 5%. She was on the grain free Wellness Core with high protein, (34% protien and higher phospherous) but me and the vet wondered if thats why her phospherous levels were so high, and she got UTI problems??? The food was great but not for her. Now that I look back does Cushings cause the high phospherous? and high protien in her urine? Levels went down the second time he tested her, and that time she was on the senior food. At first he thought kidney problems but ruled that out with the second test because everything went back to normal levels, before we tested her for cushings.

I read in someone elses post that higher fat might help it absorb better? I could mix a little of the other dogs food in - they are eating Wysong maintenance (24% protien and 12% fat) or do you think that might mess up her system with the urinary tract infections, etc.

Thanks so much,

Tammy

[Squirt's Mom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Hi Tammy,

You really don't want to increase the fat content in her diet as cush pups are prone to pancreatitis and the fats can cause this to flare up sometimes.

Alison is the expert on the oil w/Lyso but if my memory serves me correctly, you can use something like cream cheese (full fat version) or peanut butter to give the dose with, or even some warmed oil like olive oil (I personally am wary of corn products for pups but some use corn oil, too). Since you are using a liquid form, there may enough fat/oils in that to help with absorption but I'm not real sure about that. Alison will be on later this afternoon or tonite as she is in Australia and I'm sure she will have some input.

Wellness is a good feed and one of mine, Goldie, eats it, too. But they have outsourced their production to Diamond, I think it is, so now I worry about the quality of Wellness. But so far, I haven't seen any ingredient changes, analysis changes, or changes in Goldie. This commercial dog food stuff drives me batty! I will be so glad when I am comfortable enough with what I am learning to start cooking for all of them. Squirt has done so well on her home cooking that I am sold on this method of feeding!

Take care and give Kallie a hug from me!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Leslie,

Thanks for information about Wellness food. I'll keep an eye on that. I researched for a week before deciding on Wellness - then they go and do that!! Thats a bummer, oh well.

Tammy

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

I just have a question - Kallie seems to be getting weaker - she lost so much weight in the last 6 months. Her muscles seem almost gone. Would the Lysodren be making that worse? Could that be a sign of being loaded? Or is that just caused by the disease. Seems worse since yesterday (even like she is kind of down-sad). She does have up and down days. (watch, I'll wake up tomorrow and she'll be having an up day and all this worry for nothing!) She is still very hungry, drinking and peeing enough, poop seems normal. I think I will call the vet in the morning and see if they should do an acth test???? She's been back loading since last Thursday, May 7th. First time it was 6 days, then test (a week off), now 9 more days. The vet is open Saturdays til noon.

After she has been on maintenance for a while will she get some strength and muscle back? I was going to try to make her exercise little bit. Maybe even swim. We had to do hydro therapy with our other dog. You have to be careful how long they swim - only minutes at a time. (it equals quite a long distance). She has a bad back so I thought that might be more gentle on her.

Sorry I am rambling, I am just in a worry mode, I get like that sometimes at night, seems to get worse, like the whole day just fell on me.


Tammy

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Kallie is still really tired and weak. Should I stop the lysodren tomorrow (Sunday) and take her in Monday for the acth test? I talked to the vet this morning and she seemed a little perkier, (figured she'd be good til Monday) but as the day goes on she just has no energy at all and is wanting to sleep most of the day. She has been kind of coughing/weezing a little too.

Hmmmm, stumped.

Tammy and Kallie

[frijole]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Tammy

Being lethargic and sleeping alot is common during loading because lysodren is a strong drug. I know my dog tends to sleep more on the days she gets it even after having been on it 3 yrs. So just being tired would not have me worried.

Signs of loading are reduced appetite and/or water consumption. Have there been any changes there yet?

Refresh my memory if you don't mind. What was her original ACTH number? Her first round of loading was for how many days? and then what was the next ACTH number? I'm trying to get a feel for how long it has been and how her body is reacting to the dosage.

When you started loading the 2nd time did you increase the dosage at all or did you stick with the same dosage?

Thanks.
Kim

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Hi Kim,

No changes with the food and water/peeing. No diarrhea.

She first started loading and on the 6th day he tested her and it was 15. Took almost a week because the test was shipped out on a Friday and we didnt get the test back til Wednesday. We started her back up again same dose of 200mg per day Thursday. That was May 7th (that we started back up) so its been a week and 2 days. I just wanted to make sure being weak and tired wasn't one of the signs. I have to feed her tonight yet before bed so I will have another chance to monitor her eating. Would I give her prednisone in this instance or is that for only when the lysodren went too far?

Thanks for responding so quick.

Tammy

[stardeb55]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Tammy, you only want to give pred, if Kallie has one or more of the following symptoms, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or extreme lethargy. If you give pred, you must wait at least 24 hours after the pred before doing a stim, as the pred will read as cortisol, & give you a falsely elevated result. One last thing about the timing of a stim, lyso reaches it peak in the body at about 48 hours after the dose, so ideally, you would want to stim as close to the 48 hr. mark as possible.

Debbie

[Kallie'smom]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Thanks Debbie!

Go to know. I didn't know that about the prednisone and the stim test. I think her last test was only 24 hours later.

Is extreme lethargy when they don't seem like they want to wake up or can't really walk?? Kallie is just sleepy, but if I get her up she walks around and gets a drink, goes poty and goes back to bed. She does seem a little sick - real warm and shakey, but she gets up to do the necessary.

Thanks so much, I feel a little better about the situation.

Tammy and Kallie

[frijole]

Re: Hello, I am new here, Kallie just diagnosed

Tammy,

No problem... it was luck as I was out of town all day today and just got home and checked in.

Prednisone during the loading phase is for use in emergency namely too much lysodren. (vomiting and diarrhea) Prednisone mimics cortisol so I would NOT give during loading. Some vets actually recommend it but I personally do not prefer this approach because it makes spotting signs of loading HARDER.

Being tired, stomach growling and awful GAS are all typical during loading just so you know.

I am not sure where you started (cortisol level) but after 6 days 15 is still not close to being loaded so it does not surprise me that you are still loading. Some dogs require higher dosages than others. My dog took almost 3 months to load (that does NOT include the days when we were waiting for the results) and each time we INCREASED the dosage. She is WAY over the recommended amount but all dogs are different and heck she has HELD that level without reloading for 3 yrs so it was worth the wait and getting it right.

My point is just to let you know there are lots of dogs that take longer than a week so don't fret. You might consider after 14 days (of 2nd load you are currently doing) retesting just to see how you are doing. It very well could be that you need a tad higher dosage. Remember you want to not only reach a cortisol level of between 1 and 5 but you also want to maintain that level so you never have to load again.

I think you are probably getting close so keep up the great work and keep asking questions. Been there and I know it is stressful. This group saved my sanity so I'm happy to pay it forward.

Hugs
Kim