Barney

[barney's mom]

Re: Barney

OH......and thanks guys!
We love you and couldn't do this without all of you!!!!!!
XOXOXOXOXOX
Cheryl

[barney's mom]

Re: Barney

I am so confused!!!! LOL
His last stim was post 5.5, I don't remember what his pre was. That was 6 months ago. He is definitely trending upwards. I do fear his symptoms may return, at some point down the road, and I also fear that his leg weakness may be because of the higher cortisol? He hasn't been his playful self, but then again, he has been battling this eye ulcer, so he has been mopey at times over that plus back has been bothering him and he limps from time to time ......again, I am not sure if this is related to his elevated cortisol. ?????
Average life span of a border collie is 12 to 13 years. But maybe he will live years on borrowed time

I guess I am going to get the eye taken care of first. Likely he will have a repeated surgery to debride the eye and hopefully the tissue will take, and he will heal.

Then I will tackle the cushings. The vet doesn't feel that the cortisol is high enough to cause his leg weakness, but I just don't know. Right now he is on 375mg of Lysodren a week. That about 16mg/kg/wk.

He would prob require a mini load, but how much do you think? He loaded initially on 500mg daily and loaded in 7 days. His post stim was 1.5.



Cheryl

[gpgscott]

Re: Barney

Hi Cheryl,

I am more concerned with Barney's behavior than I am this post number.

10, is not considered bad for a non-cushpup and if he feels well, me; I would't push it.

And you have other issues going on which interestingly enough have not raised his resting cortisol.

As to the Dr. Feldman qoute from Glynda, I really don't think Barney is one of those pups with no control whatsoever of cortisol, based on his history.

If I am remembering right he is on a maintenence only Lysodren rgimen, is that right?

Scott

[forscooter]

Re: Barney

Cheryl,

Just checking in. I have to agree with everything Marianne said here. As you know, I battled arthritis issues with Scooter, and Bailey has the hip dysplasia on top of it all. For bassetts, the average lifespan is 8-12. Scooter made 8. Bailey, God willing, will be 10 in July.

Bailey's last ACTH (which I admit was some time ago) was around 9. The thing is, he was more comfortable there. I don't see since then that we are back to Cushing's symptoms at all. I was thinking of re-stimming him but then I thought, why???? It won't matter bc whatever he is now, he is comfortable.

I am not a believer in treating by the numbers. I mean, after all, to make the diagnosis you don't just treat on numbers alone. You treat based on numbers AND symptoms. So, in the absence of symptoms, if Barney seems otherwise happy and with good quality, isn't that the end goal after all? Treating by some piece of paper is not, in my opinion, the determining factor.

Also, high cortisol levels do damage over a period of time. Not overnight. Not in 2 weeks. So with Marianne's thoughts on what his lifespan would be otherwise, I would keep that in mind as well.

All this rainy weather has me hurting. Bailey has been limping around and I thought twisted an ankle before so I am keeping an eye on him. I am wondering if the back pain can't be somehow related to this unrelenting weather around here???

I just thought I'd chime in....you, of course, know what's best....but a very wise woman once posted on the old board when I first joined, "I don't believe in treating by numbers alone"....and to this day I keep that in mind.

My two cents...which in today's economy probably means I owe you money...

Love ya! Beth, et al.

[labblab]

Re: Barney

Cheryl, what would be the normal lifespan for a dog of Barney's size and type? If he is approaching the last couple of years of an expected lifespan, I guess I am taking a bit of a different tack here in that I would be more concerned about his outward comfort than his "inward" numbers. That is to say, I would not be as worried about chronic organ damage as I would be about his mobility and current quality of life.

Not having been a Lysodren parent, the piece that I don't know is whether you would be making life a whole lot more difficult for him by perhaps necessitating a full load in the future if you don't make an attempt to rein in his cortisol again now (e.g., I don't know how a full load compares to a mini-load in terms of stress for the dog). But at Barney's age (and from his pictures, I am presuming him to be a "big dog"), if it were me, I'd be making the treatment judgement largely on the basis of his visible comfort and the status of his symptoms.

Marianne

[Lulusmom]

Re: Barney

Hi Cheryl,

Just how high is a post stim of 10.2 ug/dl? I think Alison and I are on the same page. In my opinion, it's high enough to be concerned about. If Barney's last post stim number was within range (1 - 5), then it would be pretty obvious to me that you've lost some ground and the adrenals are regenerating. Without a minload or an increase in maintenance, I suspect that cortisol will continue to climb and you will see a return of symptoms at some point. Can you post the results of Barney's prior stim so we have a frame of reference?

I hate to parrot Dr. Feldman all of the time but he's been treating cushdogs with Lysodren for more than 35 years and has seen it all. He is emphatic with his students that "for a dog to be considered normal, you must get the post stim below 5." Now I just have to figure out what his definition of normal is.

Glynda

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Barney

Hi Cheryl,

Just off the top of my head first thing in the morning here - I wonder if the back problems couldn't be a result of subtle muscle weakness creeping in because his cortisol is too high?

Maybe a few days of cage rest would help with the back - just to settle things down again. Then you'd be able to get him back where he needs to be cortisol wise without worrying about him ending up in agony towards the end of a mini-load.

Alison

[barney's mom]

Re: Barney

Well I finally got Barney's stim results back
Pre: 1.9
Post: 10.2

Not where he needs to be
He is having problems with his back pain. I don't see any symptoms of cushings, his eating and drinking are fine and his doc doesn't want to adjust his meds based on the numbers alone. I am afraid if he is hurting now with his back, I will make it worse by trying to get his numbers "text book perfect"
I am inclined to agree with him, but how high exactly is 10.2?
Our symptoms are well controlled, but what about end organ damage?
Barney will be 12 in June.

Any thoughts????????

Cheryl

[barney's mom]

Re: Barney

I am envious of the "Purring" noise!!!! and the lovefest!!!! How can one live without this amazing creatures?

"how can I stop my dog from licking my face ?" And then a few seconds later I re-read and asked myself "what?????..... who in the world would like that?" And here I am begging Truffa to give me kisses, and totally envious of some purring and lovefest. I can't remember which web site it was and obviously never posted there.

Glad to hear we are making some progress with the eye.

Happy lovefest

Marcela & The Choco Labs

Me too Marcela! I am always bribing my dogs for kisses. You know what's funny? We had a dog Kelly that was a "daddy's girl." She was John's dog all the way. But she would NOT kiss him.........ever! He would say "give daddy kiss".......she would turn her head! ROFL! I got kisses from her all the time! Weird eh?

Hey Cheryl!
Glad to hear things are going better for Barney. It seems the eye takes so long to heal, but you and Barney are doing an amazing job. Here's to a puuurrrrrfect recovery

Take care, Harley and Lori

Haha! Thanks Lori!

[Harley PoMMom]

Re: Barney

Hey Cheryl!
Glad to hear things are going better for Barney. It seems the eye takes so long to heal, but you and Barney are doing an amazing job. Here's to a puuurrrrrfect recovery

Take care, Harley and Lori

[Truffa's Mom]

Re: Barney

I am envious of the "Purring" noise!!!! and the lovefest!!!! How can one live without this amazing creatures?

Last week while I was looking where to post about our temporary home here at K9diabetes, I found a forum and one of the members question was "how can I stop my dog from licking my face ?" And then a few seconds later I re-read and asked myself "what?????..... who in the world would like that?" And here I am begging Truffa to give me kisses, and totally envious of some purring and lovefest. I can't remember which web site it was and obviously never posted there.

Glad to hear we are making some progress with the eye.

Happy lovefest

Marcela & The Choco Labs

[barney's mom]

Re: Barney

Barney!!! you little cheese bandit; or should I say Cheese pirate? You would look kind of "bow-wow hunky wow" with a patch over your sore eye .

When Truffa had her eye ulcer, I made apparently a very "usual" mistake. I applied extra drops of her anti-inflammatory drops. Her ophthalmologist told me that THIS INFLAMMATION was a good one, the anti-inflammatories on this case delay the healing process. And poof 20 days under his instructions and it healed. But I also know that probably Truffa's case was more superficial.

What he did was : under topical anesthesia he debrided (shaved, and I almost fainted watching that)corneal epithelium and performed a grid keratotomy; he prescribed 20 tablets of Tramadol 50 mg (2 tablets twice a day) for pain and an Ulcer Mix Solution -(He made it, I don't know what it contained) 1 drop 3 times a day. By the second day she wasn't squinting as much as before.

Here are two links that helped me a lot. Hope you get well soon and we will keep praying for good results.

http://www.2ndchance.info/cornealulcer.htm
http://www.pethealth101.com/eye/corneal_treatment.shtml (this one describes an ophthalmic solution with Adequan!!! very interesting)
Marcela & The Choco Labs

I saw this a few days ago and immediately thought of Scott. I KNEW Truffa had a corneal ulcer. When Barney was first diagnosed, I did a search for
"corneal ulcer" over at cc.net but it turned up nothing. Thought I had imagined it.
Glad to hear that all healed well.
Cautiously I am thinking that we are definitely making headway. He is holding his eye open much more the past few days, and there is definitely less corneal edema.
He went for a stim test today. It was scheduled at 1130. I fed him last about 2am. Boy am I glad I did, he got home a little before 5pm and he was so hungry and thirsty.
He won't go with the vet tech. I have to walk with him and as he barrels in front of us I sneak back and out the door. I hate to trick him
He was soo funny tonight. He loves me and John to both pet him and make over him, kinda like his own love fest.
John was on the couch petting him and I was on the loveseat watching tv. Barney starts barking and barking and barking, looking at ME..........
He wanted a lovefest, lol! I went over there and started petting him too and he just writhes around making this loud "purring" kinda noise, its so cute!!!!!!

[Truffa's Mom]

Re: Barney

Barney!!! you little cheese bandit; or should I say Cheese pirate? You would look kind of "bow-wow hunky wow" with a patch over your sore eye .

When Truffa had her eye ulcer, I made apparently a very "usual" mistake. I applied extra drops of her anti-inflammatory drops. Her ophthalmologist told me that THIS INFLAMMATION was a good one, the anti-inflammatories on this case delay the healing process. And poof 20 days under his instructions and it healed. But I also know that probably Truffa's case was more superficial.

What he did was : under topical anesthesia he debrided (shaved, and I almost fainted watching that)corneal epithelium and performed a grid keratotomy; he prescribed 20 tablets of Tramadol 50 mg (2 tablets twice a day) for pain and an Ulcer Mix Solution -(He made it, I don't know what it contained) 1 drop 3 times a day. By the second day she wasn't squinting as much as before.

Here are two links that helped me a lot. Hope you get well soon and we will keep praying for good results.

http://www.2ndchance.info/cornealulcer.htm
http://www.pethealth101.com/eye/corneal_treatment.shtml (this one describes an ophthalmic solution with Adequan!!! very interesting)

Marcela & The Choco Labs

[barney's mom]

Re: Barney

Oooo....we could have "Doggie Oscars"!

I hope the drops help Barney....I ouch all over thinking about it. I can related too much and am feeling his pain! How is he getting drops? Does he cooperate?
Thinking of you!!! Sending soothing healing thoughts....Beth

Actually, he cooperates very well. He knows he gets cheese after the drops. Barney will tolerate nearly anything for a piece of cheese.
I tell him "come on Barney, lets get your eyedrops" and he and Beth both come running. (Beth always gets cheese too, ya can't feed one and not the other )

[forscooter]

Re: Barney

Oooo....we could have "Doggie Oscars"!

I hope the drops help Barney....I ouch all over thinking about it. I can related too much and am feeling his pain! How is he getting drops? Does he cooperate?

Thinking of you!!! Sending soothing healing thoughts....Beth