Patty's Ali - my precious, beautiful angel

[Patty]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Who knows, maybe I will try that food out at some point, anything I can do better to make my dog happier (like you have done) is a plus, congratulations again!! :

Thanks Eric,
I am working on hanging on to this good trend. Like Sable, Ali is happy and lively most of the time. I can usually tell when she's high and starts "dragging."

Ali's food has definitely been great for her. A vet we saw in IL steered us in this direction. We really struggled over the years with her allergies. We even tried a raw food diet back in 2003 for her but I don't think it was the quality of this one and didn't see a difference then. Her on/off again relationship with steriods, I believe, contributed to her diabetes. I should post a before and after picture of her skin - she really could be a poster dog

The tough part has been matching her diet to the insulin. If you ever do consider this type of food, I'd caution adding a good bit of extra carb/fiber, especially on vetsulin, and close bg monitoring. When we switched from kibble, I started by giving her small bits of the food as a snack during the day about the size of a quarter. Then we replaced her morning meal only and finally both meals. I was prepared to reduce her insulin but didn't back off enough and almost had a seizure from hypo. We caught it, but she went from needing around 10u to 8u of N. That was 9 months ago and a different food than she's on now. It was a 60%(meat)/40%(produce) combo. I know Heidi also feeds raw and has customized Chloe's diet. She's on N insulin as well.

I think you're doing a great job of figuring Sable out. Hopefully, she'll settle in after healing from her eye surgery!

Take care!
Patty

[ravenecw]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Right now I'm trying to make sure her eyes go well, can't wait til July 2 right now. Her bg's are.... well they drop and I do get some good numbers (for a good majority of the day, the last couple of days she was steady until tonight, high again for no apparent reason 479? ). So anyway, I test her at feeding time to see how many units I will give as sometimes she is really good and sometimes really high and other times so-so.

Mainly what I'm trying to say is, I'm not switching anything until I get the eyes all completely done and no troulbe (don't want to throw too many things at her, or me, at once). But the food is interesting, I'm not sure what I will do after but it appears the insulin, but I'm thinking the food, will have to change I beleive to get her numbers alot more even and better.

Thank you for the kind words and it's great to see things working so well for you, I might be asking more about this food at some point.

[Patty]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Well, I feel comfortable finally saying I have figured Ali out! She is showing a consistent pattern. I have her on 8 1/4u.

I was already adding 2T of mango to her second meal, then it took the addition of a very small drop of honey with 1/2 t white rice at night and 5/8 t during the day. Before, when I tried the rice, I was adding enough to keep the middle of her curve from going low but it produced a high on the other end. The mango and honey seem to slow the bg drop and the small amount of rice stabilizes her. She's had 2 higher days where she woke up with a 278ish number and the rest around 160s or so. Beautiful.

Problem is that tail bump I posted about a while ago has continued to ulcerate and grow. I took her into the vet today and she feels it needs to come off as it will continue to grow and bleed over time - especially if there's a larger blood vessel feeding it.

So, we're going to be messing things up again for a while. The vet can get her in on Monday the 6th. She recommends a first thing a.m. surgery (7:30am) with fasting and ½ insulin dose.

I really hate to do this, especially now that I just got her figured out! But, I feel like we just need to get it over with. I scheduled the appointment. They will do pre-op bloodwork on her and put in a saline lock to administer a glucose drip if needed. She’s recommending an oral antibiotic to follow as a precaution for infection and Previcox for pain for a couple of days.

Those of you who've been through surgeries with your diabetic, any advice is welcome. What insulin dose did your dog get that day for a morning surgery? Ali's shot is usually at 6:30am and she'll need to fast.

I wasn't there for her ear surgery last year. She was at my folks and it was a different vet.

Thanks!
Patty

[ladysmom06]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Hi Patty,

Those of you who've been through surgeries with your diabetic, any advice is welcome. What insulin dose did your dog get that day for a morning surgery? Ali's shot is usually at 6:30am and she'll need to fast.

When Lady had her dental last year the vet had me fast her and give 1/2 her insulin. Good luck with the surgery. Hugs to you and Ali.

[BestBuddy]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Hi Patti,
Buddy has done the no food no insulin,no food 1/2 insulin, and full insulin and full food depending on who was doing the surgery and at what time. Best idea would be to check with the vet and find our what time the operation is and what they suggest you do.
Jenny

[k9diabetes]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

If she can't eat, I prefer 1/3 to 1/2 normal insulin dose over no insulin at all. They will monitor her I'm sure and give her glucose if needed.

I'm sure things will be wacky for a time afterward from the inflammation and pain.

What do they think the bump is?

Natalie

[Dollydog]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Hi Patti,
Lady has had almost full food with full insulin with our Nevada vet and then the vet here wanted no food, no insulin which I wasn't happy with at all but had no choice! I could hardly wait to give her the insulin that evening.
Wishing you all the best for the 6th and the recovery period.
Jo-Ann & Lady

[Patty]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Thanks for the advice! I think I'm most nervous about not knowing what 1/2 insulin dose will do to her without food. I do like the idea of giving insulin instead of withholding completely.

Natalie, 1/3 dose sounds wise. Is that from experience with 1/2 vs. 1/3 dose? Just curious if you've heard of people having trouble running low on the 1/2 dose.

The vet is pretty sure the growth isn't malignant but not sure exactly what it is. We'll send it off to the lab. She's not the kind to do unneccesary surgery though, which is good.

Although this vet has seen her 2-3 times before, she's not familiar with Ali's diabetes management. Our vet that has helped us with Ali's diabetes isn't able to do the surgery (she typically makes housecalls and works on post). That's the tough part in having more than one person involved. But she did recommend her and says she's experienced with difficult cases. That's a good thing

Patty

[Patty]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Well, I got a call from the vet's office tonight for pre-op instructions. It was a receptionist that called and she transferred me to a tech to answer a few questions as the doc wasn't there and with the holiday, won't be in until Monday morning.

I asked again about the 1/2 insulin dose as Ali can drop pretty quickly early in her curve with excitement/stress, even with food. The tech of course just said to follow the vet's instructions. I asked what time the vet would be in on Monday morning and she said 8am. They'd like us to get there between 7:30 and 8. So I'll need to make the decision on what dose to give her earlier than that. She'll get insulin at 6:30a. They'll do a pre-op blood panel and put in the saline lock, in case they need an IV.

When I asked how they monitor blood sugar during surgery, she said they don't. But they may check it after surgery. I dearly hope she didn't know what she was talking about... This doesn't sound typical to me from other experiences I'm reading about. How were your pups monitored? With periodic blood draws? Her answer made me nervous...

Patty

[BestBuddy]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

When Buddy had surgery his BG was tested before surgery to make sure he was at a safe level and not too low. Most of his surgeries were only fairly short (1/2 hour or so) so another BG check at the end of surgery made sure everything was still ok. He always ate and had normal insulin that evening.

Jenny

[k9diabetes]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

We never did surgery so have not input on that.

Most dogs I have seen have done well on half their insulin dose but you can go to a third just to be extra safe. That way you cover the basal insulin needs at least somewhat, keeping the blood sugar from going very high. I'm sure if they check it before surgery and it's adequately high she will be okay. The basal needs don't fluctuate the way meal BGs do and a 2/3 reduction is a huge reduction in the amount of insulin given.

With such a small amount of insulin, you don't see the kinds of plunging BG that you do with larger amounts. I imagine that's why a diabetic dog with a very high curve, all in the 400s, say, will often have a flatter curve that gets sharper as the insulin gets to a better level. There's so little insulin that it just doesn't have the punch to drop the numbers sharply.

Chris' first curve on a small amount of 70/30 insulin was almost completely flat.

Natalie

Any time Chris couldn't or wouldn't eat, we gave him half his dose.

[Patty]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Thanks Jenny and Natalie,

I also talked to Dawn. She said Brandy's first surgery as a diabetic was with 1/2 insulin dose and with the stress of being at the vet, she dropped too low during surgery. It was about 3 hours after her shot. Now they do surgery without food/insulin.

That's about where Ali will be by the time they do the surgery I think - around 2-3 hours in. I've decided with her tendency to drop, I'm going to give her 1/3 dose to be safe. I'll let the vet know when we get there but I think it will be a non-issue, the 1/3 vs. 1/2 dose. She's not familiar with Ali's diabetes, although she's worked with others in general. She just wanted her to have some insulin and not be without.

The comparison to a curve in the 400s makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought of it that way.

I'll let you know how it goes
Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

I will be waiting anxiously for good news about Ali!

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

So Brittany's post about her gallery pics had me looking around to see who else has posted photos. Ali's photos are absolutely gorgeous. I assume that's baby Ali all fluffy in her red gear. It was a lot of fun to see pictures of her over time as her muzzle gets lighter. She's a beauty.

Natalie

[eyelostit]

Re: Update on Patty's Ali

Aw, I'm sorry about Ali's tail , did they give you a surgery date yet?