Patty's Ali - my precious, beautiful angel

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

Hi all,
We've been on quite the roller coaster ride in trying to figure out the best food/amounts/timing for Lantus. I have been frustrated to the point of wanting to go back to NPH at times (I burned my patience hat long ago, lol) but we've found a light at the end of the tunnel

She's still on antibiotics - day 12 of a 3 week course and doing well. We were at the vet today for a blood draw for VARL food allergy panel. Our regular vet didn't see any sign of cataracts. Said she could see all the way back to the retina but her nuclear sclerosis is obviously still there. That is very good news. I told her Ali's eyes truly look cloudier when her bg is higher but clearer when she's lower. I've not heard anyone else mention this before.

We were getting about a 70 point drop or more around hour 9-10. She would be too low to inject some mornings (around low 80s) and I'd have to get her to rise but then that eliminated the overlap we were using to cover food and she end up in the 300s again. Here's some of our recent experience:

10/5
238 - 8:30p 8u 6oz food
237 - 11:30p 5oz food + 1/2 T pumpkin (trying to add fiber to prevent the drop in early morning)
303 - 1:32a (got a big rise instead)
301 - 5:38a
10/6
233 - 8:00a (backing up her time because we'd been off with the big drop the day before) 8u 6oz food
220 - 11:00a 5oz food + 1T pulverized/steamed broccoli florets (has fewer calories and carb than the pumpkin so can use more for the fiber)
245 - 3:19p
155 - 6:10p Still got a drop - gave 1 t broccoli to slow it down before shot
139 - 7:00p 8u 6oz food
181- 10:00a 5oz food + 1 1/2 T broccoli
185 - 5:50a (checking for drop in bg)
10/7
170 - 7:00a 8u 6oz food
186 - 10:00a 5oz food + 2T broccoli (thinking she may need more during the day due to more activity plus going to vet today)
224 - 1:40p (may need to stick with 1 1/2T broccoli, still not a bad rise so far)

Praying our trend continues. We have been at this for 3 weeks now. It's nice to find an even keel.

Patty

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

Hi all,
We've been on quite the roller coaster ride in trying to figure out the best food/amounts/timing for Lantus. I have been frustrated to the point of wanting to go back to NPH at times (I burned my patience hat long ago, lol) but we've found a light at the end of the tunnel

She's still on antibiotics - day 12 of a 3 week course and doing well. We were at the vet today for a blood draw for VARL food allergy panel. Our regular vet didn't see any sign of cataracts. Said she could see all the way back to the retina but her nuclear sclerosis is obviously still there. That is very good news. I told her Ali's eyes truly look cloudier when her bg is higher but clearer when she's lower. I've not heard anyone else mention this before.

We were getting about a 70 point drop or more around hour 9-10. She would be too low to inject some mornings (around low 80s) and I'd have to get her to rise but then that eliminated the overlap we were using to cover food and she end up in the 300s again. Here's some of our recent experience:

10/5
238 - 8:30p 8u 6oz food
237 - 11:30p 5oz food + 1/2 T pumpkin (trying to add fiber to prevent the drop in early morning)
303 - 1:32a (got a big rise instead)
301 - 5:38a
10/6
233 - 8:00a (backing up her time because we'd been off with the big drop the day before) 8u 6oz food
220 - 11:00a 5oz food + 1T pulverized/steamed broccoli florets (has fewer calories and carb than the pumpkin so can use more for the fiber)
245 - 3:19p
155 - 6:10p Still got a drop - gave 1 t broccoli to slow it down before shot
139 - 7:00p 8u 6oz food
181- 10:00a 5oz food + 1 1/2 T broccoli
185 - 5:50a (checking for drop in bg)
10/7
170 - 7:00a 8u 6oz food
186 - 10:00a 5oz food + 2T broccoli (thinking she may need more during the day due to more activity plus going to vet today)
224 - 1:40p (may need to stick with 1 1/2T broccoli, still not a bad rise so far)

Praying our trend continues. We have been at this for 3 weeks now. It's nice to find an even keel.

Patty

Hi Patty,
Sorry you are having problems I hate these lows myself, I am having the opposite at present with Lucy (highs) it is all the steroids she is on

I understand you are also on a new insulin + your coping with antibiotics
It is never ending Patty but we all think there is light at the end of the tunnel (and there is) Hope things get better for you soon

Hugs to you and Ali.

[eyelostit]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

Hi Patty,

I hope you find the even keel, geez it takes some time doesn't it.

[bowens2]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

I've never had any problem with Lantus and Hills RD (high fiber food).

Monkey weighs 26lbs
Eats 2/3 cup dry RD mixed with 1/2 can RD twice a day
Insulin: 14.5 units of Lantus twice a day (I give Monk his shot just prior to or while he is eating - usually about 10 to 12 hours apart but have done it as little as 8 hours apart and as far as 14 hours apart with no bad affects
Plus: about 2 cups of brocolli steamed in chicken broth and a little extra chicken broth
Treats: About 3 to 4 a day of Dogswell Vitality chicken strips (found at Target) I stick them in a Kong so he has to work at getting them out.

I use no other insulin and Monk does great. His BG curves have always turned out well.

I guess I am just often amazed no one else tries this.

I have thought of changing insulins because of the cost but so far have not found it in my heart to do so because he does so well and there is more leeway in the time span to administer it, at least in Monkey's case. Also in the beginning I thought of (and tried) of changing Monk's food because I thought something more wholesome would work better but it didn't so I have done exactly as my vet prescribed and all is well for three years except a bout of pancreatitis after he got into some corn chips. .

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

I think it's the fiber in the RD that helps Monk out so much and keeps him so constant. That's what I'm trying to add for Ali. Her allergies don't let me feed the "typical" diet or many grains so we try to come up with variations that will work.

You have such a great thing going! I think I've asked you this before Betty but
- when do you add the broccoli (and do you chop it up or leave it as florets) ?
- what time does Monk get his chicken treat?

Thanks!
Patty

[bowens2]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

I give Monk his broccoli late evening just a little while after his second meal of the day. I give him chicken strips in a kong two or three times a day. You have to be careful though because some of the chicken strips are marinated in more apple cider (I believe that is what the company told me) than others. Monk likes the florets best. I only chop them up because if I don't he drags them across the room to eat them on the carpet.

[bowens2]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

Monk doesn't like the stems of the broccoli but I have sliced them (the stems) real thin before and soaked them in chicken broth and then baked them and he seem to like them. They were like little chips. I only did it once because I started buying the bags of broccoli at Sam's Club and they are already cut off the stems but I usually still cut the very ends of those off too because they are usually a little dry or starting to turn brown.

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

I started buying the bags of broccoli at Sam's Club and they are already cut off the stems but I usually still cut the very ends of those off too because they are usually a little dry or starting to turn brown.

So you buy fresh broccoli then? I'm using frozen florets and steaming them til they're just tender. I was putting them in the food processor then because I know dogs can't break down the cell walls of vegetables to use them nutritionally. But she was getting a big rise from a small amount. I stopped processing them and she actually dropped a bit. I just need it for a bit of fiber anyway and to draw out the digestion process.

She had a great day yesterday but was a bit fragile with regard to schedule and dropping bgs so I cut her back like an 1/8u and today she's running high. She so sensitive to change.

We'll get there eventually...

Love your comment about Monk dragging them across the room, too funny!

I'm still waiting to hear back on Ali's food allergy panel. It may not be 100% accurate but I'm curious to know what it says.

[bowens2]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

I use fresh and only occasionally use frozen. I have a corning soup cup (almost like a big mug - it has a handle on it) that comes with a steam lid that you can put in the microwave. I stuff it to the top with broccoli and pour in a little chicken broth - cook it in the microwave for 5 minutes then put it in another tupperware type container and pour in a little more chicken broth and let it cool. Sometimes I make up two or three days ahead of time. That is one thing that has never raised his bg. I often thought about doing it twice a day but never have. He doesn't seem to act as starved as he used to.

[bowens2]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

You know I have never seen any of the broccoli in his stool so I am assuming his system must be able to break down the broccoli. He always has very firm health looking stool. He goes about 4 times a day. At first he went about 6 times a day.

I have been fortunate that he has not other medical problems to deal with. I feel for you.

Good luck let me know how it goes.

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

I regularly feed Zac (healthy 3yo dog cattle dog) broccoli and cauliflower and sometimes brussels sprouts. I usually use frozen and then microwave them as I would for human consumption. Both freezing and cooking break down the cell walls and raw feeders advocate freezing vegetables before feeding for this reason. I prefer to cook them too though. I've never seen any identifiable bit of broccoli make it through to the other end whereas grass will definitely come through just about unchanged. (Zac loves to eat certain types of grass at some times of the year - I think he likes the taste!)

I did have to food-process vegetables for Mia though so I could mix them through her meat as otherwise she was pretty reluctant to eat them - pretty typical for a small dog, I think. Zac, on the other hand, very often eats his vegetables before moving onto the meat. He is not a fussy eater.

Alison

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

Both freezing and cooking break down the cell walls and raw feeders advocate freezing vegetables before feeding for this reason.

Thanks Betty. And thank you Alison for the added info.

Ali likes to graze on long pieces of grass too

There are very few things she won't eat. Lettuce is one of them. But then I used to give her carrots as treats before she was diabetic as well as broccoli and apples, etc. I wasn't worried about the nutritional aspect then...just doing some training and having fun. She often broke out with some of the typical treat biscuits, I guess due to the grains in them.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

This is such a beautiful picture of Ali!

[Patty]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

Thanks Natalie. That was this summer at a little town off Lake Ontario. She really wanted to jump in with those ducks!

Just wanted to update our progress:
We are still working on the Lantus. Trying to combat the big drop (anywhere from 70-200 points) that can happen from hour 8-12. Right now it's requiring a snack at hour 7, which is usually 2:30am and pm. So far the things I've added to the 2nd meal just spike her and don't carry her through to her next shot. We had one night she was running high (366 at 2nd meal) and I left out her broccoli to help lower bg. She wound up 151 in the morning. Nice number but that's a 215 point drop!

On days where she's been too low at next shot (I won't inject in the 80s-90s - she's too unpredictable sometimes and will go lower later) I feed her to get her to rise but that eliminates the overlap we have and she'll wind up 408 two hours after a nice 165.

I've always complained how it seems she does well with a food then seems to adapt to it and starts dropping again. We've had that happen too and I'm increasing the amounts of added food.

I've found on 7 3/4u, she runs 200-300s and trends upward with just her base food. On 7 7/8u (where plunger is just over the 8 line but not quite in the middle to be 7 3/4), she runs in the 100-200s but I have to add other food to carry her through. 8u is too much. It's amazing how sensitive she is really. I'm also worried that the increase in calories may cause her to gain weight. I'll have to watch that.

Here was last night:
162 - 7:50p 6oz food + 3/4 oz steamed broccoli florets
150 - 8:20p
137 - 10:50p 5oz food + 1 1/2oz broccoli + 1 T pumpkin
197 - 12:05a
188 - 2:06a checked because she was a bit restless, fed snack at 2:50a of 2 1/2 T pumpkin + 1 1/4oz broccoli
196 - 5:35a
173 - 7:30a

Now if we can just repeat that!! Today she's running in the 200s but it's rainy and she's laying around more. Still looking for consistency but loving the days like last night!

I did get her allergy results back. Score are ranked 0-6 (6 very high positive, 3 is considered a high positive, 0 is undetectable) Here were the main ones that tested positive.
3 - eggs
2 - soybean
2 - duck
2 - rabbit
2 - oat
1 - wheat
1 - rice

She used to eat Wellness Duck and Rice. I always thought she reacted to the Chicken formula but looking at the ingredients in the Wellness Chicken, it has oatmeal in it. I think I would've discounted the whole thing if it didn't show oatmeal as an allergen. It was very obvious last fall when I tried to add oatmeal to her diet that she started itching like crazy, buckwheat as well. Food allergy testing is very complex they say due to all the modifications that foods undergo in preparation as well as in the GI tract but it gives me something.

Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: Patty's Ali - Happy 10th Birthday Thursday July 9!

Here was last night:
162 - 7:50p 6oz food + 3/4 oz steamed broccoli florets
150 - 8:20p
137 - 10:50p 5oz food + 1 1/2oz broccoli + 1 T pumpkin
197 - 12:05a
188 - 2:06a checked because she was a bit restless, fed snack at 2:50a of 2 1/2 T pumpkin + 1 1/4oz broccoli
196 - 5:35a
173 - 7:30a

That is sweet! (artificial sweetener only! )

Natalie