hind leg weakness

[Daisydog10]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

I was trying to correct all the time when he was first diagnosed, and made it worse.

I did the same thing.

I thought I had Daisy pretty well regulated and then her morning numbers went high again. I upped her insulin by just .2 and she was still high, back in the 300-400's. Jessegirl mentioned about rebound so I lowered Daisy's dose and her numbers went down. You would think it would have an opposite affect, but it worked. To me it's amazing how I can overshoot her dose by that small amount and it throws her off by that much.

I did lower her evening dose to 4.8 from 5. Then I noticed her morning levels got high and I lowered her morning dose down to 4.8. I've seen a couple dogs on here that have different morning and evening doses. I guess it just goes to show how each dog is different and we just have to find the missing equation with ours.

[jesse girl]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

the key is consistency in whatever your routine .your correct on that

[amydunn19]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

I think if the doses are too far apart unit wise, then that could be part of the problem. When I "varied" Maggie's dose, it was only by a half unit - a unit change was too much for her and she would swing the other direction. You are right in thinking that reacting to the numbers and the amount eaten by adjusting the dose is causing a bigger problem.

I think the varied amounts of food may not have as big of an effect in some dogs as others. Another thing I did with Maggie was feeding her something small at bedtime, her fourth Mini- meal of the day. Her numbers were always better if she ate before bedtime. Sounds weird and counterintuitive but it worked for her. Might backfire for someone else. The thing about following all the rules is they just don't work the same for every dog. Keep at it, you will get there.

[Raysaint]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

Yes, that's why I want to pick a new morning dose (maybe 5 or 6 units) and stay with it, regardless of his morning fasting and whether he eats 10% or 50% of the can ( a whole can was his usual breakfast.) I can always give a carb treat midday if he eats little breakfast and his fasting was low. A curve when he eats 10% is probably wise.

BUT, with that strategy, should I now limit his breakfast to no more than 50% of the can, to help ensure the new fixed dose keeps him in range?
Just this morning he ate a whole can, so I had to give him his normal morning dose of 9 units. If he does that sometimes, then I'm changing dose again, up from the new fixed lower dose I plan to give him.

I know he is going to continue to eat varying amounts in the morning, so if I don't want to give varying doses, then I need to limit his food intake to a maximum amount that coincides with the new lowered dose. I can't plan on him eating a whole can like he used to, and maybe can't let him eat a whole can if he feels like it.

[Gomeysmom]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

So I am going through similar stuff with Gomey. I shouldn't "Type" this out loud but I am off tomorrow and plan to do a curve (there goes the numbers probably!)
Anyway...Gomey had basically given up on breakfast and was being very fussy at dinner. I didn't know how to dose her..Panting, incontinent, over drinking, no interest in a walk, hard to get up, etc..
Typical food is now baked chicken thighs (will no longer eat boiled and seems to be over the stew) with a very small handful of blue wilderness kibble. Breakfast (when fussy) could be 2 slices of "natural" chicken breast from the deli and a beneful hug. I also dehydrate meat as a snack which she gets when I leave the house and at bed time.
I have her on Rimadyl every morning (random joint pain and weak hind end) and new..a cranberry pill (had been incontinent before I started this pill) and occasionally a probiotic which I give her in the morning as her treat with natural peanut butter after her injection which I had been varying between 4-7 units depending on what she ate.
2 weeks ago I broke my rule and went out and bought her pedigree small dog dry kibble and more biscuits ("beneful" hugs.) Someone had asked if there was anything that she would consistently eat...I know she would eat the hug...and the dog food was what she ate prior to diagnosis....I am not sure how her sugar has been but my fasting spot checks have been 205-335(which is not that different from her restricted diet numbers) so again I will have to see what the curve shows on this "poor" choice of food diet.
Breakfast is not a forced thing anymore where I stress that she eats the plate of chicken and kibble. I now am content if she eats a bit of meat (my cooked or the deli natural) and one or 2 hugs...I will try a small portion of pedigree dry, blue kibble, and meat..if she won't eat it she will eat the hug and I figure the 2 are enough to give her insulin...again some days I give her (5) units and other days I give her (7)...she in theory is set to be a 7 units every 12 hours.
I have to say she has been SUPER! As long as I am sleeping downstairs so she can walk by herself outside or to the water dish she has been sleeping through the night again, not panting, and just "normal"...
Again I haven't seen much of a difference in her attitude when I give her less insulin in the morning and she is hungry before the dinner time hour so I have to feed her then or I miss my window. If she doesn't get dinner when she haunts me she will loose interest..I am no longer being "perfect" on the 12 hour injection...I have been going by what her body has been dictating...Morning when I have to work MUST happen before 7:00am (if I am off she is happy to eat something around 9am)...Dinner can happen anywhere between 5:45 and 8:00pm. Insulin comes about 30 minutes after food....If she gets "late" insulin dose, then I don't give her as much in the morning... that next evening she may "beg" to eat earlier...So we do..
Is this working for her and me? It seems to...I guess tomorrow's curve will let me know. I will share my results on Sunday if I get a chance. I know that all dogs are different but it is true if there is an underlying issue (UTI or joint pain) they will not want to eat and it can get out of control.
I am pleased with how easy she eats the cranberry gel pill and I think it has made a big difference.
I am not saying we have found our true routine but for now if the numbers agree, this is working!
One week at a time?

[Daisydog10]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

Yes, that's why I want to pick a new morning dose (maybe 5 or 6 units) and stay with it, regardless of his morning fasting and whether he eats 10% or 50% of the can ( a whole can was his usual breakfast.)

Daisy is not a picky eater, in fact I usually have to pet her while she's eating and whisper "slow down" because she eats so fast and chokes on her food. But, what I did realize is- no matter what her numbers are before breakfast and dinner, I keep her insulin the same and it evens out. I was trying to adjust the insulin on more of a sliding scale depending on her numbers and that was a total disaster. So you may be on to something.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

Hi Ray

I think your right changing the dose to 5 or 6 units.

also the diet recommended for hypothyroid dogs is non processed food and grain free. Wellness senior has grains. I.d search other hypothyroid dogs on the forum to see what they eat. I know Mike feeds Merrick grain free.

your dog is 6 years old eating senior food. its recommended to feed senior food over 7 years. I checked out the wellness Core wet canned/pate, its adult, grain free.
feed 1 and 1\2 time a day for the 12 oz for recommended calories.

I hope he can lap up his breakfast soon

nice hit weather were having not too much rain eh!

regards Mo

[Raysaint]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

As an aside, Yesterday he ate his whole breakfast and I gave him his full dose of 9 units, then his full 8.5 units at supper, and this morning his fasting was 25 (450). So the doses had no disparity, like the last few days, so was the 25 another big rebound reaction? 8.5 at supper has been his normal dose, and I did cut it back the past couple nights after the past few days of high morning numbers.

So I guess I have to re-regulate him with a new lower morning dose, limit his breakfast to half a can, but not sure what to do with evening dose. Does 8.5 seem too high for his body now, now that his morning dose will be 5 or 6, down from 9.5? I can't see his evening dose need to be increased all of a sudden, when it's been good for a while.

As for his food, the Senior formula has grains but his thyroid is bang on. The barley and oats are good fibres. The Senior had similar numbers to the W/D, and all the other foods I researched that had numbers I liked, there was turkey in them, and he can't eat turkey. So that limited my choices.

[Raysaint]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

Update. I set his morning dose at 5.5 units, limit his breakfast to half a can. Midday spot check blood sugar was 6.8 (120) yesterday.
Supper hasn't changed, eats a full can and gets 8.5 units. Morning fasting sugar last 2 days was 8.3 and 9.1.
Looks like regulation is near. Thanks to all for your help.

[jesse girl]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

fingers and paws crossed for continued success

[Daisydog10]

Re: Need help, morning numbers suddenly bad

That's great news and glad to hear!!

[Raysaint]

Overnite numbers weird now, any ideas?

Not too long ago I had his dinner time dose up to 8.5 units, and was getting some good morning fastings, in the 7-12 (126-200) range. But many were still way high, so increased to close to 9 units.
I can't buy a good morning fasting now for the last couple weeks. I can usually get his BG down thru the day with his day dose, 5.7/5.8 units.

Yesterday his supper fasting was 4.1 (72). So I gave him about 8.7 units, at 7:15, then spot checked at 10:30 p.m. (bg 10.4/190), and checked at 12:15 (bg 16.2/290).
He normally has a bowl curve in the day, so why on earth was his sugar increasing when the insulin was peaking? His fasting this morning was 19.1 (340).

The 10.4 reading makes me wonder, was he coming down from his post prandial rise, or was that still part of the post prandial rise. And why no decrease after that.

I guess I'll have to check between supper and 10:30 to see what's happening before I increase his nite dose.

[jesse girl]

Re: Overnite numbers weird now, any ideas?

well for jesse her curve is based on what her fasting is. say if she has a fasting at 72 at dinner like your pup she would be higher in the morning with a normal dose now sometimes a reduced dose will keep her more steady and even but not all the time but say with you if i gave more insulin that just made the numbers more unstable

now if she is higher she will have a lower fasting at next shot time

my theory is the body recognizes the lower number and responds with more sugar that it gets from the body higher sugar needs to remove excess sugar but the body just doesnt have the ability to use appropriate levels of sugar so swings can swing widely from low to high and vice versa

for jesse there is a magic fasting number that she stays fairly flat not to high and not to low mid hundreds seems to be best for her but low 200s ok

i have actually gave her honey at a lower fasting which lessened the spike at times but its a real balancing act. her spikes arent as high as they were when she was newly diagnosed but they are still present . i dont think it has anything to with food directly because her diet is low glycemic so i believe it comes from the body

i guess this may sound a bit nutty for you being a diabetic but this is what i have seen with jesse and understanding this has helped me to keep her stable not prefect but good enough to live a happy healthy dogs life

[bichons9]

Re: Overnite numbers weird now, any ideas?

Weird...or bouncing or what? BG=200's during day that spike at night to early am??? No real nadir? Do any members post their blood glucose curves or charts? I performed a strict q2h. curve yesterday. I think through the night curve would have been more informative but had poked poor Suzie so much. I am trying to download curve graphs to record on but can't find one that does not have restrictions-even on Google docs. Being able to view the charting of other dogs' insulin-glucose values, etc would be so helpful. At least I think it would be... since it was when treating my diabetic cat now in remission.

[Raysaint]

Re: Overnite numbers weird now, any ideas?

Last night I increased to a full 9 units at supper, and his bg was 13.5 this morning. Better. So maybe it's going to be that simple.
I guess I'm always hesitant to increase when a current dose can give good bg sometimes. I fear that an increase will cause lows, but we know it's not a linear reaction of insulin to bg effect.