Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

[Zoology1603]

First post on the new forums, let's see if anything breaks. =)

We just made the switch from Vetsulin to Novolin N. We started at 8 and worked our way up to 9. We will probably settle on 10 just like the Vetsulin, which is what everyone had said but we had to start low first and work our way up just to be on the safe side. There's probably 1 more dose left in the bottle of Vetsulin but I kept it in abeyance in case the Novolin had no effect.

I am keeping the Novolin N bottle in a small insulated box I made on the door of a small refrigerator. It stays under 77 degrees but above normal refrigeration.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Theres directions lol.

I refrigerated Riles insulin. Put the old bottle at the back of the fridge. Swapped it out when i got a new bottle in case the bottle ever got spoiled or broken..

I took the bottle out before meals,rolled it litely in my palms. Filled the syringe fed him then injected the warmed up insulin. Easy peasy.

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

I got the Novolin N from WallMart. The instructions are kinda stupid:

Unopened bottles of Novolin should be kept refrigerated 36° to 46° F (2° to 8° C). Once you have opened the bottle, it should be kept at room temperature below 77°F (25°C) for up to 6 weeks (42 days), and kept away from direct heat or light. Do not refrigerate in-use Novolin N products.

No information on why you can't put the opened bottle back in the refrigerator. Just below 77 degrees. We heat the house with a wood stove in the winter and I can tell you it's probably above 77 degrees sometimes. One bit of information I was able to find online was a cold liquid hurting more when injected. Well I already knew that which is why I warm the Vetsulin (syringe held in my hand while she's eating) prior to injecting.

[jesse girl]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Yes nph is more potent and concentrated over vetsulin but the syringe volume is larger with vetsulin so doseing usually ends up about the same and that's how it worked with Jesse but she was on vetsulin for a short time to give a clear picture on that subject . It's still maybe a good idea to drop the dose by 10 percent or more when switching

Now you still have to generally role and mix NPH insuin . Not as vigorous as what vetsulin suggest .I think that recommendation comes from when it was removed from the market and being inconsistent and the solution was more vigorous mixing .

It sounds like you have really good regulation and not sure you want to change a good thing . Nph is very different . Now we have seen mostly positive results and regulation is about the same.

Once Jesse was fairly predictable and regulated I did not do any curves and her last couple years of life not much testing at all as I was very keen on how she acted . She kind of protested testing towards the end and I said ok and blood sugar wasn't an issue for 95 percent of her diabetic life .

Congrats on a job well done .Remember there will always be ups and downs .

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Heres the information you need. Fyi you can buy nph insulin at a drug store, pharmacy.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pets...ins-t7138.html

Nph is more concentrated whereas you need to drop Bear,s dose by 1 or 2 units

I.d be testing before injecting .above 200. Then inject. At least for a week till the new insulin settles in.

Nice to hear our Bear is doing good

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Her weight is still steady at 36lbs. She's liking the new food. We haven't done a proper curve in a while. I check her lowest time of the day from time to time. Her dose was raised to 10 units. We are seeing 116 at noon and 184 at 3. Every time we've tried to do a curve day something comes up. We've given up chasing the dragon and attempting to keep her numbers below 300 all the time.



Can you explain how we would go about switching insulin. In regards to Vetsulin I read if you don't wait long enough after you mix it you might not be getting the dose you think due to microscopic bubbles created from the mixing. However if it is not thoroughly mixed it won't work as expected either. An insulin that doesn't need mixing should be more reliable as you won't have to wonder if the dose is the dose you are expecting. We have a new bottle of Vetsulin to go through and a box of syringes which won't work on a different insulin.


I pay more attention to her mood and health as I do her b/g numbers. When I do check I've been able to guess what her numbers will be before the meter even shows it so I'd say we are in sync now pretty well. This is thanks to everyone here's help along the way.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

how is Bear's weight?
has she gained any lbs?
weight plays an important role in insulin and amounts?

any change in her blood glucose since changing food and the new bottle of vetinsulin?

fyi
in case something happens to the insulin bottle, its good to put the old bottle a 1/4 full in the box at the back of the fridge or butter compartment for an emergency.

ps. theres a way to take $25 off your insulin a month if you switch insulins which will involve dropping back.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

its not the only change. i suggested raising to 9.5 half a unit, test, she went higher so to drop back to 9.
half a unit can be anywhere from 50 to 150 points going higher or lower.
i asked you drop back if you changed foods
you need to drop to get a true reading when the food change settles in.

important

please drop back to 8.5 from 9.5
the higher bg is not the insulin its how she is digesting different foods
drop back now while your changing foods then spot check do a curve in 7 days

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

We haven't been testing much because she's transitioning from Holistic Select to Nulo, which is supposed to be low glycemic. The few times we tested, she was higher than I would have estimated her to be at. Honestly I don't think it's as much the food as it is this bottle of insulin. We've been using the same exact food since the old bottle and fully through this new bottle, so it is the only change that was made. But we were always going to switch away from the expensive w/d (which is actually higher glycemic than the Nulo) so we may as well do it now. We won't be doing a curve until a week or so after the full transition has been made.


Of course she's healthy and happy and exercising every day. We'll be on a new bottle of insulin in a few days. Gosh it seems to go fast for $50.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

hi
how is Bear doing?
did you reduce the insulin to 9 units
hows her 2 hour after meal bg
please post her recent curve

[jesse girl]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

For my Jesse she could only accept so much insulin at one time which led to me giving her 3 doses of nph insulin

It's not unusual seeing higher numbers with a dose adjustment higher . It maybe reactionary from the body to this foreign substance . Rebound is limited to it's parameters of methodology . I think it's a bit broader than just steep quick drops

With any adjustment you need a week and sometimes even 2 weeks to settle . So yo kind of have to ignore a higher trend until things settle

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Quote:
One of her foods contains some simple carbs that is causing a large spike and when I am able to replace it everything may work out fine.

This food combination looks like its not working either because of mixing two foods as the above.

Awhile back you introduced one food and the insulin worked at i think t was 8.5. It might have been one if the wet foods. I dont have time to re read but look back at your posts you.ll find the food i think met up and worked. Was it freshpet?

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

She's been receiving 9.5 units in the morning for a couple of days now. I know we should wait a week before seeing the full effect but I just thought I'd share some numbers since I was curious what was going on.

Fasting b/g 322 just before her meal and insulin.
2 hours later, 508. 4 hours later 426.

Compared to her last curve: she went up 85 points after her meal 2 hours later when she was receiving 9 units. Now since she is on 9.5 units it appears to have gone up 186 points 2 hours after. One day's numbers don't really correlate to anything other than just strange behavior. I do not believe it to be a somogyi rebound unless I'm missing a huge drop in her b/g somewhere before the 2 hour mark.

We'll know more after we let her adjust to the increased dose for some time but some possible things to consider are:

1) One of her foods contains some simple carbs that is causing a large spike and when I am able to replace it everything may work out fine.
2) She may do better dividing her food into 3 or 4 meal portions per day instead of the 2.

We haven't had much exercise the last 2 days because it's freezing cold here and that could be a factor thrown in as well.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Got it

The only resolution to try is feeding her a small bit , 1/4 cup of dry food at noon should stabilize her till her supper meal

Try upping her insulin by half .5 to 9.5 in the am only. Leave the 9 units at supper. If or when you change food you must reduce by 1 unit or dont bother raising her by half a unit in the mornings

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

I see her pic and the other graphs okay but not todaysNope lol not this host