Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

labblab

https://lonestarvetacademy.com/wp-co...gital-Copy.pdf

This says you can cut the chewable in half. I am going to contact svpmeds and see what they say. I'm continuously reading that you should split the dosage with a diabetic dog, as you have also said. Your thoughts? I'm actually not adverse to giving the meds if they can be split in half. I think it would be a little safer.



I would not have thought this to be possible and be sure to get the same dosing on both halves if there is no split score.

[jesse girl]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

I tend to agree splitting the chew if you can . You would like cortisol levels to stay consistent throughout the day to work better with insulin.

Now a single dose may see possibly different amounts of insulin given which is fine and not unusual . You just have to test a bit more and maybe late at night . I have don'e that just to see how Jesse trended late at night

Now to give or not to give . I definitely defer to our resident expert but as far as common sense I see 2 possibilities . You could start now while blood sugar is elevated to compensate for the lowering of cortisol which should lower blood sugar . The other option is to see if you can get blood sugar down to that 200 level and see if their is a improvement in the cortisol levels without giving medication

You are not anywhere to being insulin resistant . So you have plenty of room raising the dose . I might be comfortable to go as high as 15 . That's still half the amount for a 30 pound dog could get but I am less comfortable with that . So that gives you some perspective and how much room you got work with . Many vets can be more conservative on doseing . Actually my Jesse was on a very low dose and quite sensitive to injected insulin

You can also be a bit more aggressive in dosing moving up 2 units as you have not seen anything under 300 . Once in the 200s you do have to slow down with smaller adjustments

As long as you are testing the bigger jump is not that much of a problem . I believe you could get numbers from 150 to 250 eventually. It's still early in the process . You got meal difficulties and a possibly an added illness
I have good confidence in you to get the job done . It's going to take sometime and you will be in a haze for a bit but you and your pup will come out of this and settle into a new normal routine . I never thought it was possible with Jesse and wondered why it was so difficult compared to others . ? That never stopped me . As long as she wanted to be here I would fight for her .

[labblab]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Yes, I would check with the compounder to see whether your chews can be divided. If so, I think that would be the more effective route to go with a diabetic dog. I’d love to tell you it would also be safer, but that’s really not the case. In fact, dogs who are dosed twice daily may end up needing a reduced daily total due to extending the suppressive effect across the full 24 hours. Unfortunately, there’s just no way to tell in advance how any individual dog will metabolize the drug, and that’s why the lab monitoring is so important regardless of the dose. Some large dogs end up needing much lower doses than small dogs, just due to individual variation in metabolism.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

i too was contemplating a 2 unit increase but Bear was out roaming around and their werent enough strips. its feasable to up 2 units along as shes monitored 24/7 and frequent tests are done.

if you can do the above i.d go up 2 to 11 reevaluate in 3 days. test test test

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

5:14pm :: 428
5:58pm :: Meal
6:05pm :: 10 Units
8:05pm :: 527

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

5:14pm :: 428
5:58pm :: Meal
6:05pm :: 10 Units
8:05pm :: 527

good job

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

I talked to the pharmacist over at SVPMeds and she said they can be cut in half and they are at least 90% likely you a giving the correct dosage but they are made to be cut in half and even 1/4ths. She said if I wasn't comfortable with cutting them in half they could make them in 20mg dosages next time but they would cost more.

[labblab]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

I don’t think it’s a big issue if the dose is not exactly evenly split. The manufacturer of brandname Vetoryl gives the OK to uneven twice daily doses if isn’t feasible to arrive at duplicate doses. This can be an issue with Vetoryl since it is only produced in those four discrete capsule sizes — it can take multiple capsule combinations to arrive at an exact split. When the exact dosage is known and a split is impractical, they instruct you to give the larger of the two doses in the morning. In this case with the chewables, you won’t know the exact dosage in each half. But based on what the pharmacist has told you, the difference should be negligible and therefore hopefully a non-issue either way.

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

I'm considering giving it a try tomorrow. I know the vet will give me another frowny face when they find out I'm not doing the single dose as they did when I showed them my insulin dosing.

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

9/22

I went to a 968kcal/day diet for a more active dog.

7:21am :: 561
7:30am :: Meal
7:37am :: 10 Units
Outside from 10 till noon
1:37pm :: 635

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

not exactly lower numbers were looking for


total calories for the day you looked up is 792
this mornings meal she got 968


is this 968 correct?



points to too much food not meeting up with the new 10 units



her numbers are going up they need to be lowered asap.

[Zoology1603]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

I fixed it. I meant 968 total for the day. It's an extra 10 grams. If it turns out to be too much, I'll drop it back down. We're spending the day outside. It's a nice cool day.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

i.d drop her insulin back down to 9 tonight. her bg is going up instead of down. everyday theres a food change. i asked for 3 days of no changes. i cant try to regulate like this. reduce to 9 please. raise or lower it only after a curve is done

everytime you feed , her blood sugar goes up. i.d be looking at a different food and feed her less for now

its 300 more than when you started! introducing the cushing meds at the high bg i think will mess her up more.


an veterinarian internal medicine can help you

[jesse girl]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

My Jesse blood sugar could drop exercising .she dropped a 100 points chewing on a bone . Once again she was very sensitive to insulin . Something to be aware of

Will be interesting to see how the medication affects bloodsugar . For some members it was quite substantial and cut their dose in half . Just keep a check on things . I am sure there is a loading up process but leave that to our expert

I left Jesse's vet behind after a few weeks and managed diabeties on our own . They did a great job bringing her back from the brink but managing this disease at a vets office wasn't going to work for Jesse and our situation.

Fingers and paws crossed for a positive outcome

[labblab]

Re: Diabetic Australian Cattle Dog

Before you start giving Bear the trilostane, let’s go over your vet’s gameplan for monitoring. If your vet is unable to perform an ACTH stimulation test, then the alternative is to draw blood for a baseline cortisol level drawn one hour *before* dosing/feeding. The timing for this is very important. I’m going to give you two links that list the protocol and interpretation for the test results. Since I’m not sure what units your lab will use for reporting, the first link is for results given in nmol/L. The second link is for results given in ug/dL.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gqU...L9Y6RtbrcaKAE8

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aQO...ZWjCrdlG4CE7p0

Ideally, the first time the test will be run is at the 10-14 day mark. Under no circumstances should you wait longer than one month — and that is assuming that Bear does not exhibit any ill effects in the meantime. As I wrote earlier, every dog metabolizes the drug differently. So the initial starting dose is kind of a crapshoot. Dosage adjustments are very commonly required, based upon observable symptom resolution and blood levels. If a dog appears to be unwell at any time, the medication should be stopped completely and the cortisol level should be checked at that time.

Does any of this correspond with what your vet has told you? If not, let’s discuss before you start the medication.