Border collie Jack passed away on February 28, 2022

[pgcor]

Re: Border collie Jack

Poor Jack! Next door to constantly barking dogs?! That would drive me nuts. Pip is a barker so once he starts I have to go outside and bring him in. Because he could bark all day long...

I don't know if you know this but Newman is a part pittie.

He's a sweet dog, but let me just say someone has to pay for others' mistakes.

I love him and I am glad he's with us, but he strikes fear in the hearts of everyone I pass while walking him. No one dares pet him and because of this I have to be careful as well. Isn't that a shame?

[MaryLea]

Re: Border collie Jack

Yep, it's good to hear. We always worry when they aren't doing their best!

Mary

[Patty]

Re: Border collie Jack

Good to hear Jack's back up to snuff, Natalie!

[CarolW]

Re: Border collie Jack

Right, Tami, considering what you and Soaphie and Sydney went through.

I agree with Natalie - it's a genetic feature that underlies the problems. Some dedicated people can keep Pit Bulls (and their genetic cousins) safely, because they pay close attention to meeting all the dogs' real needs, and remain aware of the genetic tendencies. AND keep the dogs under strict control at all times.

Back to Jack, Natalie; I'm so glad he continues to improve. Good boy, Jack! Camellia will try to wag in synch with you!

Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:42:05 (PDT)

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Border collie Jack

Don't even get me started on pitbulls...

[Shellie]

Re: Border collie Jack

Those stories just make me angry, Natalie. And I don't feel sorry for the people...it's the dogs I feel bad for. And there really isn't anything you can do! I think that is probably the most frustrating part. We have a lot of pits here due to having a certain type of people that live in part of our town. Thankfully, they keep them there so we don't see much trouble. But I always wonder when I do see one what it's life is like. Why does it always take a death of some other animal or person before any action is taken? I know it takes time and effort to get our society up to par on these things but sometime I wonder if we'll ever get there.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Border collie Jack

Jack's tail seems normal to me, though I'm still being a bit protective and cutting his exercise time a bit short for a while. It started raining today and is expected to continue, so that will give him some additional rest time.

I should probably call the ER vet back and see if she will slap a diagnosis on his chart there. I don't want to spend any more money trying to get a bit back from insurance. I suspect the vet I really like who is now mostly retired might have given a diagnosis. I sure miss him.

As for the pit bulls...

I totally agree - it's not pit bulls that are the problem so much as it is people drawn to pit bulls for all the wrong reasons.

I do think pit bulls present some risks that other breeds do not, including a tendency to be dog aggressive by breeding. The San Francisco Bay Area group that advocates for pit bulls used to say last time I checked that one should never ever leave multiple pit bulls or pit bulls and other dogs unsupervised. Ever. Especially unneutered pit bulls. Perhaps extreme, but safer.

So not everybody should have one. People maybe should be licensed to have one... Same goes for a lot of other breeds too. But not many other breeds have that genetic tendency.

The pit bull who was living next door when we moved here in 2001 was a classic case of human stupidity and neglect. Boyfriend buys house as investment, lets girlfriend rent it, and gives her a pit bull puppy. She hasn't got a clue about dogs so she throws the puppy out into the backyard chained to a doghouse. Rain, shine, wind, cold, 110 degrees... the dog's chained out in the backyard. She started barking and whining constantly. Who could blame the poor thing. So neighbors contacted Animal Control about the noise and that got her allowed into the house for periods during the day.

But never potty trained or trained at all or socialized or walked. She was already ruined. She chewed out walls and doors from the floor to as high as she could reach. She urinated in the house. Once she almost burned it down by jumping on the stove and managing to open the gas line on it.

And she was terribly dog aggressive. The older she got, the worse it got.

She constantly tried to fence fight and get at Chris. Fortunately for Chris, he wasn't even interested and he just ignored her.

But one day she got out - she also dug under the fence constantly and roamed the neighborhood - when she heard Chris and I coming back to the house on a walk. She went around the house, under the fence and across the street toward Chris and I snarling. I had no way to defend us other than my voice and a walking shoulder slung bag I swung at her. If there hadn't been a male neighbor out at the same time who hollered at her and helped back her off, I think she would have attacked us. He kept her at bay until we got back in the house.

Another call to Animal Control and she was required to be kept confined to their property. But one day she heard a tiny little chihuahua who lived across the street out in front of his house. The minute someone opened the door to leave, she tore past him and attacked the chihuahua, who didn't survive his injuries.

And then... they decided she should have puppies... because there's nothing more calming to a dog aggressive pit bull than motherhood... That's when she started trying to break down our wooden fence to get at Chris and every trip out for a walk was like stepping into a mine field because you never knew if she would be out there.

One of the best days of our lives, ever, was the day that wench had a big blowup with her boyfriend and moved out, taking that poor ruined dog with her.

Probably that dog would never have had a great temperament. She was a ruined pit bull from conception most likely. But six months of raising her properly when she was young and maybe she would not have been a dog killer.

I think there's a very good possibility that Chris had pit bull or Am Staff in his mutt mix. But he was the most nonviolent dog I ever met. Another dog couldn't make him fight.

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: Border collie Jack

So glad Jack is doing better with his tail!

I'm incompetent to comment on the neighbor-pitbull situation. Truly horrid. Sorry they are your immediate neighbors, but glad the dogs aren't at the fence bugging Jack from there.

There's so much in the world of dogs that so often tears at my heart. This place is a good place to be, here on these forums, because it's a heart-healing place, all around.

Jack - wag that lovely tail of yours! Camellia wags hers for you and Natalie!

Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:30:10 (PDT)

[buddingartist]

Re: Border collie Jack

Hi Natalie

How is Jack progressing today. Is he able to sit with no obvious signs of pain?

Were you able to finally get the diagnosis so you can put the claim in as I'm sure it must have cost you a pretty bundle the way you described the treatment that he received at the vet emergency clinic.

Let us know when you have a chance

Louise

[Shellie]

Re: Border collie Jack

I always feel so sorry for the entire pit bull breed...it's been so maligned over the years due to bad owners! There are two about a block away that are constantly getting out...completely irresponsible owners. Unfortunately, these dogs, while they are absolutely sweet and no problem with people, are completely prey driven. Both of them have attacked my Hank several times. Luckily, if I pick Hank up, they go away or don't even bother him. BUT... they've killed a cat and attacked several other dogs in the neighborhood causing severe damage. Police say nothing can really be done! Dogs and cats are property and so these 'crimes' aren't that big of a deal...damage done only to property. Another neighbor who was injured while pulling one of the dogs off hers is working to get the owners held responsible for all of this. My one fear is that they will put the dogs down and unfortunately, I think it will come to that. The dogs aren't safe anymore...because of their owners! That makes me SO angry! They are such beautiful animals...and probably very loving animals but because their owners didn't train them properly... they're the ones who will suffer! Oh I could go on and on! It's such a frustrating situation! I love that saying tho...these dogs SHOULD take their owners to the pound...preferably a kill shelter!

[momofdecker]

Re: Border collie Jack

Natalie -
I'm so glad to hear Jack's tail is doing better. Recently read through the beginning of his thread. Loved the stories! Some of his behaviors reminded me a lot of Decker in his younger years .

Sorry to hear about the pitbulls next door. One side of our fence is chain link - belongs to our 90+ year old neighbor, however, most of it is on our property line. She is a very sweet woman (who still drives) but given her age we suspect it won't be to many more years before we have a new neighbor on that side. Not sure I look forward to that day!

On the other side of her is a gentleman who lives by himself with his pitbull. Beautiful, non aggressive dog. He also has a chain link fence but we always see him walking the dog or holding the dog on a leash within the fence. One day as he walked by us he laughed as he told us how he had the fence put up for the dog only to learn in a few hours that the dog could and would jump it. Give our neighbor a lot of credit and have much respect for him for being such a responsible pet owner. One of few who try to counteract the bad name the breed receives due to irresponsible owners/breeders.

[MaryLea]

Re: Border collie Jack

Louise, I'm going to post that on my FB page! You are right, too that bad dogs ususally belong to irresponsible owners.

Mary

Wouldn't it be nice, if for just one day, dogs could take bad owners to the shelters.

[buddingartist]

Re: Border collie Jack

..... and then people say: <Oh, those are bad dogs<.

I say bad dogs, bad owners. This makes my blood boil when I hear of things like that.

Last summer, police raided a house not far from where I live. There were 20+ dogs walking around in their feces, no food, no clean drinking water, windows all closed and the owner had been away for a few days.

A Facebook friend posted something on my wall recently:

Wouldn't it be nice, if for just one day, dogs could take bad owners to the shelters.

Needless to say, this thing got reposted many times.

Louise

[farrwf]

Re: Border collie Jack

I sure hope they don't find a way into your yard.

You're spot on with with your "profile" of the average pitbull owner. Seen way too much of it. Like you, had neighbors breeding them and it was nothing but trouble till the police made several arrests. The mutts frequently got out of their yard and terrorized joggers and anyone else they came across. It also happened to be a center for criminal activity in a nice neighborhood.

One day a few years back I saw several cars of undercover cops pull in their cove to serve a search warrant. Well, about the time the police got inside the house I heard several gunshots. The owner of the pitbulls had set them on the police and the cops killed two of them. After they took the cretin owner to jail, the county animal control arrived and removed 13 pitbulls & puppies from the premises.

I could ramble all day, and part of tomorrow about the problems the neighborhood had with that mess, but I'll stop now. Anyone with doubts about the veracity of the "profile", just drive around different sections of your city or town and see who owns most of the pitbulls you come across.

BTW, never read an article about a Labrador Retriever, Golden, Min Pin or Pug killing or maiming anyone.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Border collie Jack

It's generally a mistake to let me say too much about the neighbors... once I get started it's hard to stop me.

The situation works okay for Jack because they aren't rushing the fence when they are stuck in kennels all the time. They sometimes bark a lot and Jack is stressed by them but is managing as long as they aren't able to come at the fence.

But those poor dogs... I feel so bad for them. And I feel bad for whoever winds up with the puppies. Partly because they are a risky breed and completely unsocialized to humans or to much else beyond the kennel walls and partly because the kind of people who want the kind of dogs he sells are not good dog caretakers. He is definitely marketing them to the kind of people who like spike collars and huge chains for leashes and get a little kick out of having a dangerous dog. Dogs as an extension of self or lack thereof.

As far as I can tell, they are an income and an ego thing for him. Definitely not because he loves living with dogs.