Border collie Jack passed away on February 28, 2022

[BestBuddy]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Poor Jack. Finding out so early will make a big difference in keeping him comfortable. You can start some supplements to stop things getting worse. If you haven't already pop over to k9cushings (everything else) and have a look at the mind puzzles Saskia gives to Yunah. I had no idea these things even existed let alone have a dog who would/could do them.

Jenny

[Patty]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Jenny,
I really enjoyed reading through their thread. Thanks for posting this
Patty

[Patty]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

How's Jack doing today Natalie?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Jack has a wood Dog Brick from that line of puzzles. It's rated moderately difficult but is not difficult at all for Jack even after we started blocking the sliders so he had to push those blocks out of the way.

We recently started substituting Hide and Seek at bedtime instead as that is more challenging and takes longer. I hide a half a dozen small treats in various spots - under blankets, inside shoes, in the notch of the door frame - while he waits not so patiently in another room and then I turn him loose to find them. Even that's not very challenging any more but it's still a bit of mental stimulation for him. He uses mainly his nose to find them. And then we tell him "All Done" when he's found them all.

We also tell him "warmer, warmer, warmer" or "colder colder" when he's having a difficult time finding one. I'm sure he listens more to tone than actual words but he hones in on a spot when we say "Hot, hot, hot!!!" It's pretty funny.

With tricks, it's sometimes just a matter of demonstrating what you want him to do with stuff he likes to do. It was very difficult to get him to put his toys back in his box because that's such a precise task compared to tossing them out - he tosses toys all the time. Anything involving his front feet onto things is easy. Anything involving his back feet or standing up... impossible so far.

He's not into being a performing seal so we generally concentrate on the tricks that are fun for him since the main goal is mental stimulation.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

He's in a lot less pain than he was on Friday night. Sunday it still hurt enough that he was perfectly happy to stay in and rest. Monday not so much and yesterday even less so. Guess he feels better but I'm still avoiding walking him very much and he will be on Metacam for another three days.

He's tolerating the Metacam really well - that was a relief. I loved what Metacam did for Chris so was hopeful Jack would tolerate it well. He licks it out of a dish too so easy to give.

We suspect that this back issue may be what has limited his exercise tolerance. We were surprised when we adopted him, knowing enough about border collies to know they are considered high energy, and found that 30 minutes of moderate exercise such as loping mixed with walking is about all he can handle. He has weak pasterns, which also may contribute, but we think now that his back may have started to hurt.

We also wonder if the crisis level of pain was generated by our recent trip. Every single moment spent in the car on that trip he stood up. There was no getting him to lie down. Not sure if this could have aggravated it but it was right after we got home that I noticed that he was carrying his back leg in an odd position.

If that is a contributor, we will need to adjust his travel set up to see if we can get him to rest part of the time. Maybe a soft-sided kennel. We have also thought about finding a way to elevate him so he could lay down AND watch what's going on outside the car.

Natalie

[Patty]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Glad to hear he's feeling better.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Well, this afternoon he seems a little sore. I offered to take him out at 4pm and he really wasn't interested.

He gets Metacam in the evening, about 7pm, and he's on a low dose to avoid an interaction between that and his Prozac so I wonder if maybe the pain control is fading by afternoon. If he's that way again tomorrow afternoon, I'll give him a Tramadol and see if that perks him up.

No luck on getting the ramp back. I bought one at Petco yesterday just so we would have something we could use but I don't like it as well. It is fairly light, which is good, but it's folding rather than telescoping and it's just really awkward to handle. I'll probably cave in and go buy another one of the kind I like since our SUV is pretty tall in the back plus sits on a slanted driveway and, when he feels good again, he's in the car once a day every day. Seems like it's in his best interest to use it daily.

He went up and down it once yesterday. He wasn't crazy about it but he did it.

For anyone needing a ramp, this is the one we like best of the... five! we have tried, or six maybe now with the Petco one!

http://www.amazon.com/Solvit-62337-D...d_bxgy_k_img_a

Natalie

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

I'm pretty sure the pain med most likely to interact with Prozac is Tramadol rather than a NSAID. I can't find anything about Prozac and NSAIDS being a problem - but plenty about an at-least-theoretical or maybe documented problem with Prozac and Tramadol.

(I'd look into it a bit more but I'm having a lot of problems with a very sl-o-o-o-o-o-w connection this evening - 3 minutes to load a page (if it loads) and then all I get is ads for tooth whitening - aaarrggghhhh!)

Alison

[Patty]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

I love the hot and cold cues for hide and seek

Bummer on the ramp Natalie. That looks like a really nice one too. Doesn't it just figure when you finally give something up, you need it again

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Among the many coincidences/ironies associated with this back problem, I had just a few days before downloaded an article on psychopharmacology for pets and had read about seratonin syndrome, which was one of the concerns the vet had.

I think part of the concern about the NSAID was just a lot of meds passing through the kidneys.

Fortunately so far he's had no problems at all with the meds. I gave him a Tramadol this morning to cover the afternoon and he seemed to feel better.

I posed a "what now" question to the VetPet list and it seems that we really must try to keep him from jumping up on the bed... not sure how that will be accomplished. We put a pet step there but he has no interest in using it. He's willing to come down it if coerced but totally unwilling to use it to get up on the bed. He jumps over it!

I confess I got a bit sad this afternoon when I read about how to deal with dogs who had disc problems.

Jack finally has a home where he's loved and wanted instead of shut up and ignored in the kitchen all the time... it just doesn't seem fair to him to limit so much of what he enjoys. Among his favorite things in life are pouncing on his toys, riding in the car, and flying up onto the bed. He is not at all interested in being lifted up and down or walking on ramps.

It just is not fair to Jack who is a sweet soul and hopefully finally happy and feeling like he belongs and that we will look out for him.

Natalie

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Hi Natalie,

Sorry to hear Jack has a sore back, I agree with you it is sad when you have to restrict them from doing things.------especially jumping.

I know your Jack loves to play, I hope the discs heal soon and his pain eases up.

Hugs

Marg

[Patty]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Natalie,
A great explanation on the VetPet list but still quite frustrating that Jack has to deal with this long term.

Just offering my sympathy...
Patty

[Dollydog]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Oh Natalie....it's a sin that Jack has to have this issue after finding such a wonderful home. Keeping Lady still for 6 weeks when she was recuperating from knee surgery (she was 19 months old) was absolutely horrible but we did it. BUT it was only for 6 weeks.
The fact that he has such a great family to live with is the only plus in his situation because we all know he'll have the highest quality of life with you and Jeff.
(((HUGS))) for you all,
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel

[CarolW]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Natalie - you and Jack have my LARGE sympathies.

I've been faced with similar problems at times, especially with Kwali. Kwali would SAIL over ANYTHING! I had lovely bed-steps, all in place, for the dogs to go up and down. Kwali? She'd just sail past all of them, jumping off the bed.

Eventually, I worked out a way of preventing her from doing that - putting all kinds of things in the way. She ended up using the bed steps okay.

The living room couch was another one. I blocked that by up-ending a coffee table, so she couldn't get up on the couch at all. Of course, then Kumbi couldn't, either!

There are just times when I think we need to do what is best for our dogs.

With Jack, as this appears likely a life-time problem, I'm wondering if he could, eventually, be taught to use that ramp. What I'd likely try with it would be enclosing it with wire ex-pens on both SIDES, perhaps with a fanned-out entrance-way on the floor - maybe another on the bed or couch?

Which would leave you very little room, if any, to sleep on the bed or sit on the couch!

And so goes Life With A Dog.

MAYBE Jack will heal up enough so eventually he could be allowed to jump a little bit. I don't know. He probably doesn't know what jump a little bit means. (ha!)

Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:35 (PDT)

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack has a couple of bad discs in his back!

Poor Jack!

We tried to increase his activity a little over the weekend but he wasn't up for it. Sunday we went to Circus School for Dogs and he was distracted and apathetic - I was pretty sure he was in pain and it was obvious as we walked back to the car.

So back to the vet yesterday.

This time we saw his "official" vet, who just came back from maternity leave. She didn't have many detailed notes from his last visit with another vet so she gave him a pretty thorough physical exam of his reflexes, etc. and found that the paw-turn test response was not so good on the back right foot. So there does seem to be some effect on the nerve from the inflammation around those discs. It's the same foot that I noticed he was carrying oddly in the days before his pain became more obvious.

So Jack has been ordered to two weeks rest - as much rest as we can get him to do. No car rides, no walks of any kind, as little moving around as possible. He's been hemmed into my office and the hallway outside by the baby gates with only beds on the floor to lie on.

It's not a problem during the day time so much - he's used to me being busy on the computer during the day. It's when Jeff gets home at night and he expects to play that it will be difficult.

The vet feels he is pretty stoic about displaying pain so is probably in a lot of pain. We upped his Metacam to a full dose for his size since the smaller dose didn't bother him.

She would like to have him crate-rested but agrees that would probably drive him crazy so we are trying a modified version of it. If he doesn't improve, the next step is to see the neurologist. I love the neurologist - we saw him with Chris - but sure hope we don't have to see him again if you know what I mean.

Natalie