Border collie Jack passed away on February 28, 2022

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Jack the project!

Oh my goodness - I'm so far behind!

Sorry for all your troubles Natalie! Man, Jack REALLY lucked out finding you!!!!!

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

I just talked to the neurologist. He's calling in a prescription for Medrol, a methylated version of prednisone (haven't had a chance to look it up yet) - it should have the same anti-inflammatory effect but not the urinary problems.

He agreed that Jack seems to be very sensitive to the prednisone and says it's a urine-concentrating issue.

It's not that the pred made Jack thirsty. The urination came first, followed by drinking some extra to compensate for the fluid loss.

Natalie

[BestBuddy]

Re: Jack the project!

Natalie,

I hope this variation does the trick. I'm sure the pred side will help with the pain and if this new stuff stops the excessive peeing then it should work.

Jenny

[pgcor]

Re: Jack the project!

Natalie - of course, I have nothing useful to say as I don't really know much about what's happening to your Jack. I just wanted you to know that I'm really hoping Jack will feel better soon and all will work out well in the end.

Thinking about you and Jack...

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

Ugh... 24 hours off of pred and he still has to urinate every 1.5 hours. If we wait 2 hours, he dribbles some on his panicky way out the door. And he's not recognizing the need to go himself until he has trouble holding it.

So I'm just going to set alarms and take him out every hour and a half as that interval seems to be enough to prevent accidents.

I'm not giving him anything else until we see whether he recovers his ability to concentrate his urine.

I've got a tentative appt late this afternoon and will talk to the GP vet when she comes in about whether we should be checking his electrolytes and kidney levels.

His gum color is good but the gums are dry and his skin tenting seems to suggest at least slight dehydration. He seems a little punky but we are both tired too. He had a really good, energetic park visit yesterday so he's not feeling really terrible. He so far is eating and pooping normally, just still peeing gallons of dilute urine a day.

I imagine the pred could take a few days to clear.

It's definitely not excess thirst. The urination is leading the drinking and I don't think he's drinking enough to keep up with the output.

Natalie

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Jack the project!

Natalie,

Lucy was never good with Prednisone..........infact she had so many injections of Pred that we think this contributed to her diabetes

She peed a lot on it Natalie I think once it is out of Jack's system you will see a difference in his urinating.

It is no fun being up every hour especially when you are both tired.

I always remember you saying Natalie that like me you are up very early and can go back to bed and sleep again. I always go back for a couple of hours.

I would not last the pace if I didn't go back Getting old now (Ha Ha)

Hope things get better soon Natalie.

Hugs

Margaret

[Patty]

Re: Jack the project!

Hoping things settle down once the pred clears, Natalie.
-P

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

He's very quiet but I think his urinating is a little better. I've been taking him out every 1.5 hours and now instead of a gallon, he goes a more normal amount.

We are gonna check in with the vet this afternoon just to go over things and see whether she thinks we should check anything like his electrolyte levels.

Natalie

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack the project!

I want to say poor Jack but I'm thinking poor Natalie. You must be exhausted. I so feel for you as interrupted sleep just kills me.

Hope it continues to go well.

Louise

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

We switched him over to methyl-prednisone last night. And after 36 hours without a dose of pred, his urination had decreased a little and it had a little color to it so I was encouraged that the effect was capable of wearing off and he seemed better hydrated.

He made it through last night with one potty at 10:30pm, one at 1am, and one at 5:30am, the last a tad desperate to go. But then he went out again at 6:30am, just an hour later, and did a gusher. Then made it to 8:30am... so we will see. Every two hours would be only slightly better than every 1.5 and I don't think we will know where it will fall until he's been on it a full 24 hours.

I have an appointment this afternoon that is brief but about 35 minutes away so I will take him with me so he won't have to go a full 2 hours without a potty break.

It was good to sleep three or four hours at a time last night.

So we will see how the day goes.

Thank you for all of your kind thoughts - they are much appreciated.

Natalie

[Patty]

Re: Jack the project!

Keep us posted Natalie. Hoping the methyl-pred is better.

[pgcor]

Re: Jack the project!

Natalie - I'm calling you before I have to visit the incontinent aisle or the nursing home, whichever comes first. You're such a good girl!

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

He's back to needing to go about every hour and a half, occasionally more often, so no different on methyl-pred than on pred... not sure what that means, if anything. He seems subdued but did a good leash walk just now and is eating and pooping normally.

I'm trying to get some work done but I probably need to check in with the vet(s) to see if the fact that his response to the methyl-pred being the same means anything at all.

Natalie

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Jack the project!

I've never heard of methyl-pred having less side effects in the PU/PD(?????). You'd think that if that was the case it would be prescribed all the time in preference to prednisone.

Is some sort of local steroid injection around the problem area a possibility to avoid or at least minimize the systemic effects?

FWIW, when Mia's cortisol began to rise (or she when was on pred briefly for a bad ear) the PU/PD was by far and away the first symptom to kick in. It looked like the dose of cortisol (or cortisol equivalent) had to be higher to trigger the big appetite etc. but the effect on urine production was very marked and very rapid in onset.

The delay in getting back to normal urination after the pred could have been medullary washout. I've had a bit of that myself lately (I seem to be very prone) due to drinking heaps to cool myself down at times rather than because of thirst. After a while I'm going to the loo every 40 mins (urgently!) and needing to drink a lot this time to keep up with the urination. With me it usually fixes itself to an extent overnight (not drinking) and then it is back in full force by the afternoon.

OK - that was probably too much information!

Alison

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

Alison, I have had the same question and just haven't had time yet to pursue an answer.

More correctly, it's methylprednisolone, which may be the key to the difference. I haven't had a chance to do any research so I'm pretty much talking out my a... but I do know that my cat gets prednisolone rather than prednisone and I seem to recall that they don't like to give cats prednisone and that the issue is somehow related to the conversion process of one to the other.

Obviously, I need to do more reading!

The GP vet said the MP is longer acting than prednisone and the neurologist is giving it once a day instead of twice as with the prednisone. I just saw a reference that said that steroids are more effective if given more than once a day but also more toxic when given more than once a day so perhaps that is related to the hope that it would have less effect on his urine function.

And it is more expensive - $30 at Target instead of $11 - and not routinely stocked by either vet.

There's the sum of what I know right now but I am determined to get it sorted out for myself tonight.

Natalie