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Border collie Jack passed away on February 28, 2022

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  • Re: Jack the project!

    Yeah; what Patty said!

    Dr. Kay will want to say hi to you, so ask for her, if you get the chance! I'm going by all she said when she was a guest on the Yahoo DogRead group, and also in her blog.

    I'll be watching for your report - waving our magic wands here!

    Tue, 12 Apr 2011 00:24:17 (PDT)
    http://www.coherentdog.org/
    CarolW

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    • Re: Jack the project!

      Hoping for some good news Nat. There is going to be a solution to all this. They are going to get Jack better. I just know it!!!!
      Marianne and canines: Jasmine( diabetic since 4/10) Puma,Harley,Sebastian,Sophie and cats: Yoda,Sabrina and Cleo. Also Baby Boy (my cockatiel) & Angel Pebbles

      Comment


      • Neurology visit

        We had our second appointment with the neurologist today after Jack had been off of Metacam for a week. The neurologist was able to see the kinds of gait issues that occur without the NSAID - Jack walks stiffly, rolls his hip, sometimes limps, and bunny hops when he runs - and he got some reaction from Jack when he manipulated the right rear leg between the hip and the knee.

        It's still not completely clear what the problem is other than it's definitely in that right rear leg and not in the mid-back area where the damaged disc spaces show up. He had their surgeon manipulate the knee and hip and she agrees that there's something going on in there but it's not clear exactly what. They both agree that the knee feels really stable and there's no obvious sign of problems with ligaments, etc.

        It's possible that there is pressure on the nerve root coming off the spine down into that limb.

        Because our appointment was later in the morning and then there was a delay while waiting for the surgeon to have time to take a quick look, we didn't want to pursue any further diagnostics today and wanted time to think about what we want to do.

        The next step would be x-rays of the rear right leg from the knee up to the spine in that area, with anesthesia since he wouldn't hold still for those positions anyway, and then, depending on what was seen in the x-rays, put him into the MRI.

        Basically to cover all of the bases and just be absolutely sure there isn't something that could be fixed surgically.

        Jeff is not at all sure he wants to go there. I have mixed feelings. I would like to know what is causing the pain so I know what options we have for dealing with it.

        As I told the doc, Jack does okay on Metacam. Not great... but okay. It's not that we couldn't get by with things as they are. But I would feel terrible to find out 10 years from now that we could have relieved him of pain and medication with a single surgery that would allow him to run and jump and cavort pain free all those years.

        My sense is that the docs think the scenario where a surgery would fix it is not all that likely, but since they can't identify the source of the pain, they can't rule it out either.

        So this week we get Jack back on Metacam and think about whether we want to follow this diagnostic path all the way out.

        Sidenote: Got to meet, just very briefly, Dr. Nancy Kay!

        Natalie

        Comment


        • Re: Jack the project!

          Natalie, I am just catching up on the posts.

          I am so sorry you are having to go through this. Having just lost a furry friend and worrying about another one is emotionally exhausting like you mentioned in your post and I feel for you.

          Despite all this, you are selfishless and still find the time to help others. You deserve a great big special hug. Thank you

          Hope you and Jeff can find a solution to alleviate Jack's problem and giving him the best of quality of life. I do know Jack couldn't be in better hands

          Louise

          Comment


          • Re: Jack the project!

            Jack is one very very tired boy today.

            We left yesterday at 9am and were at the vet's from 11am to 2:30pm (Jeff and I did skip out for lunch quickly while waiting for the surgeon to have a chance to check Jack, who stayed at the clinic while we were gone so he was ready when she was). Got home at 4:30pm. Between four hours in the car nonstop standing up looking out the window and three and a half hours at the vet with two different people contorting Jack's limbs in every direction, he's exhausted.

            Natalie

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            • Re: Jack the project!

              But I would feel terrible to find out 10 years from now that we could have relieved him of pain and medication with a single surgery that would allow him to run and jump and cavort pain free all those years.

              My sense is that the docs think the scenario where a surgery would fix it is not all that likely, but since they can't identify the source of the pain, they can't rule it out either.

              So this week we get Jack back on Metacam and think about whether we want to follow this diagnostic path all the way out.

              I'm glad they were able to narrow down the source of his pain somewhat. Definitely a difficult decision in deciding how to proceed from here. And not an inexpensive one if it turns out the Metacam truly is the best solution for now. A lot of questions/unknowns.

              Guess I'm just offering my support in your decision making process and understanding it's not an easy one.

              Patty
              Patty and Ali 13.5yrs 47lbs diagnosed May '08 Ali earned her wings October 27, 2012, 4 months after diagnosis of a meningioma ~ Time is precious ~

              Comment


              • Re: Jack the project!

                Hi Nat,

                Poor wee Jack I hope he has recovered from the journey and all the manipulations.

                I pray everything works out for you's Nat you really deserve it

                Hugs to you all

                Margaret
                Margaret & Angel Lucy July 4 2001- May 6 2011

                Comment


                • Re: Jack the project!

                  Natalie - when I read "But I would feel terrible to find out 10 years from now that we could have relieved him of pain and medication with a single surgery that would allow him to run and jump and cavort pain free all those years"...it dawned on me that those feelings are what drive me nuts about diabetes.

                  It's those moments when you're not sure you doing the right thing and they can't talk!!!!!!!!!

                  I hate that, and I feel for you and Jack. But Natalie, no one has to tell you to follow up and read all you can and go the extra mile - because you automatically do that.

                  I'm sorry you have to wrestle with this - it really does suck, But you don't need a pep talk from me - maybe just a little reminder of your skills, you know you have that!

                  What I can't believe is that 7 hours or so of tension didn't put that boy down! I think Pip would have gone for a nap by then.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Jack the project!

                    Well, Natalie, you ARE having a difficult time! Decisions, decisions! with the situation being a bit muddy! Not fun! To Marianne - it's great to see you back on the forum - give us your news some day!

                    Natalie -I'm delighted you got to say hi to Dr. Nancy Kay! She had mentioned somewhere in her blog, first, that she highly appreciates forums like this one, where people study in depth, and also, that she likes to have people introduce themselves to her.

                    Jack certainly is being a trooper - good for him! Yeah, it's hard! That was a really long haul for him. (Hang in there, Jack; hope the MetaCam gives you some relief in the interim.)

                    Natalie - I had written a post I had to give up for some reason, or maybe I wrote it to somebody else - guess so - even on a different forum - but - Kwali and Kumbi each had ruptured cranial cruciate ligaments, a year apart (2004 for Kumbi, 2005 for Kwali). This was a clear-cut situation, unlike Jack's. The ligaments required repair.

                    My own vet did the surgery, not being a surgical specialist, though she does specialize in Internal Medicine. Another of her vets assisted.

                    Neither Kwali nor Kumbi, once recovered and healed, showed any sign of pain thereafter - for years! - the knees held, painless, till each died.

                    Of course, I gather it's not known whether Jack has something that surgery might fix! The whole thing sounds very, very tricky.

                    If ever you need a Patience Hat, Kwali and Kumbi will make you one, and Camellia will adorn you with it. She's never seen one of those things before. She will donate a Patient's Hat to Jack. He's earned it! Kumbi took his to the Bridge, where he wears it from time to time.

                    Love and hugs,
                    Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:17:02 (PDT)
                    http://www.coherentdog.org/
                    CarolW

                    Comment


                    • Re: Jack the project!

                      Poor Jack. Times like this when you wish you could explain what the heck is going on. I know you'll do what's best for the poor guy, whatever that ends up being
                      Forbin, miss you every day. See you at the bridge Buddy.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Jack the project!

                        Nat,
                        Some sort of closure will be good for you. Can the pain be alleviated by surgery? You like I have to give our animals 150% of our care . And yes you would never forgive yourself if the pain could get much less for Jack. If it were I I would do the X rays Hopefully this is not too expensive. Then decide if an MRI is worth doing. The MRI is extremely expensive I know.You have gone this far. Why not go a bit further?

                        Whatever your decision is Nat I know it will be the right one. Jiggle the pros and cons the " Just Do It" ( isn't that a Nike commercial? )
                        Marianne and canines: Jasmine( diabetic since 4/10) Puma,Harley,Sebastian,Sophie and cats: Yoda,Sabrina and Cleo. Also Baby Boy (my cockatiel) & Angel Pebbles

                        Comment


                        • Re: Jack the project!

                          Hope Jack is feeling more rested today....(((HUGS)))

                          Comment


                          • Re: Jack the project!

                            Natalie I am praying for you and jack. I agree and maybe you should just do it. The xray, the MRI and hopefully you will finally find out what is wrong.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Jack the project!

                              Hi Natalie, hope Jack is feeling a little better.

                              When I read your post on how poor Jack was struggling, 2 things struck me as very familiar. The bunny hop and the rolling of the hip.

                              When we got Cleo at 10 weeks old, she was overtly in better shape than Buddy but there were many things she just would not do it... she wouldn't jump on or off the couch, Buddy was already trained on stairs and she wouldn't do it. On her walks, she would just stop and lay down. At first, the vet said it was due to her luxated patella, then they thought it was because of a level 4 heart murmur. Then they suggested acupuncture and after 2 sessions we didn't go back.

                              Finally when she was 9 months old, they did an x-ray and discovered a hairline fracture and they did the excision orthoplasty of the femoral head. I don't have your technical know how and am dealing with a second language but the layman explanation was the removal of the ball of her knee. The surgery was performed by a vet surgeon from Guelph University which is the only vet teaching hospital in Ontario.

                              Because she was so tiny, there was no prosthesis for a dog that small so we had to keep her on a leash all the time, restrict her exercice, not allow her to run and we crated her most of the time. We also had to manually exercice her back leg . This lasted one year in order for the bones to fuse together again.

                              She was put on glucosomine/chondritin and even though her little leg is a little shorter and she walks with a small limp, she has been doing well since. If we over exercice her (like runs on the beach) she will limp and not be able to jump on/off the couch but she is now 10 1/2 and we have to give her metacam. She has the occasional flare up (humidity, cold etc) but overall she is doing good.

                              I am hoping for both you and Jack that an x-ray would provide as positive an answer as it did for our Cleo.

                              As a matter of information, the surgery cost $2,000 10 years ago.

                              Good luck. Thoughts and prayers for both of you

                              Louise

                              Comment


                              • Re: Jack the project!

                                Wow, Louise, a fractured bone at such a young age! Poor girl.

                                I do think we need to do x-rays. I asked the current vet for the series of x-rays he did in 2009 when we were looking at the weak pasterns - he x-rayed all of Jack's ankle/wrists, knees/elbows, and hip/shoulders. They might shed some light but they predate his signs of pain by a year and the vet wants to anesthetize Jack so he can get some really good crisp films of the spine to knee in the back. Jack won't hold very still if he's conscious.

                                If we get the x-rays there, then, while they have him under anesthesia, they can do the MRI if they want to take a further look based on the x-rays. If they found something obvious in the x-rays, they could skip the MRI.

                                Yunhee also gave me the name of a good orthopedist/surgeon in the Bay Area. I'm thinking about a second opinion from him as well as there's no rush to do anything other than my desire to put the question to rest.

                                The one thing that makes a difference is doing the x-rays at the hospital that has the MRI as that would mean just one anesthesia instead of two times.

                                Our semi-retired vet is an ultrasound expert and he mentioned to me once about doing an ultrasound of a joint. I might pester him about that possibility too since he's still doing ultrasound work. Just to see what he thinks it could actually tell us.

                                We are currently in muddle mode. Lots to think about and no need to rush to a decision.

                                It's taking Jack a long time to recover the benefit of the Metacam after all that manipulation on his leg. He's still doing some limping and is not very energetic on walks. I think the effect of the Metacam builds over time so expect that it will get better as days go on. At least I hope so.

                                Thank you all for your kind comments, contributions, and well wishes. Jack is such a treasured member of the family. He's been with us two and a half years now and I think we are even more twitterpated over him than we were before! Partly because he's much more relaxed and secure that this is home. Sometime in the past year, he made it over that threshold of being a little unsure that he was here to stay to knowing that this is his family.

                                Natalie

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