Border collie Jack passed away on February 28, 2022

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

Jack is 54 pounds / 24 kgs and prescribed 1/2 mg/kg so he's getting 10mg as half of a 20mg tablet, starting with twice a day for five days and then doing a three-week tapering off.

He's been out to pee a gallon every three hours since dinner last night, which is gonna make for a long five days...

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: Jack the project!

Sorry about the loose dogs! We have that problem often around my place. No dog-park, but we'd probably have that problem if we had one!

Hope Jack feels better soon - that the pred takes hold.

Mon, 17 Jan 2011 04:41:34 (PST)

[BestBuddy]

Re: Jack the project!

I can only assume how pred works with dogs, but with me I find I get a boost within 1/2 hour of taking it but for long term relief it takes a few days to build up. How much is he getting?

Jenny

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

We stopped the Metacam on the 11th and stopped the Gabapentin yesterday. First prednisone tonight with dinner.

Today, after 10 minutes of slow walk, he was quite sore and tired so definitely suffering from having no pain meds on board.

But the good news is that his favorite park reopened after being closed for a month or more. The bad news is that everywhere I go lately there are unleashed dogs... it is becoming impossible to find somewhere safe to take him. I'm hoping for more ranger presence at the park this spring to keep it from going feral.

Natalie

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack the project!

Jack is one lucky boy to have you and he couldn't be in better hands.

I cringe when I think of all the meds that the vet and specialists prescribed for Buddy and which I <blindly< gave him thinking that they knew better.

Simply amazing and somewhat scary.

Louise

[Patty]

Re: Jack the project!

oh wow...that never would have been on my radar screen.

Glad Jack's levels aren't warranting immediate action.
Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

Interestingly, there is a report in the human medical literature of a woman who reportedly developed thyroiditis while taking Gabapentin and thyroid problems are listed as a rare side effect.

I haven't been able to get my hands on the actual article yet but am hoping to. And I will contact the neurologist to see if he has heard of this or seen it occur.

Possible Gabapentin-Induced Thyroiditis
Mark A. Frye, MD

Frye, et al. reported a woman who developed thyroiditis. Upon gabapentin discontinuation, there was prompt resolution of symptoms and a return to her baseline thyroid function.

Frye MA, Luckenbaugh D, Kimbrell TA, Constantino C, Grothe D, Cora-Locatelli G, Ketter TA. Possible Gabapentin-induced thyroiditis. J Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 Feb; 19(1):94-5.

http://www.slideshare.net/roger961/a...yroid-function

The more specific test came back mildly low and the vet suggests waiting a couple of months and testing again, definitely after the gabapentin has cleared his system.

Free T4-ED = 0.5 ng/dL Normal Range 0.7-3.7
Free T4-ED = 6.4 pmol/L Normal Range 9.0-47.4

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

It's very frustrating Louise - so many ear products have Gentamycin in them and there doesn't seem to be an alternative that covers all of the bases.

Since this is his first ear problem, I'm not going to worry too much about it. It very well could be that he got some moisture in there and that's how the yeast got started.

He has not been shaking his head since she cleaned out his ears (with a product that probably contained Gentamycin) and started the Ketaconazole and I think we will be starting prednisone this weekend. He's on Day 3 of his Metacam washout.

No word yet on the Free T4 with ED. I was hoping today. Will see if they are open tomorrow.

Natalie

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack the project!

I just did a search of Otomax and found out that it contains gentamicine.

Sorry Natalie, my bad

Louise

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack the project!

Hi Natalie,

When Buddy was on antibiotics for months and months, he developed severe ear infections regularly and the vet prescribed Otomax. It really helped, but of course it wasn't taking care of the cause.

Because he was fed grain based food, he also had a lot of yeast in his ears and on his paws and I would have to take him in regularly to have his ears cleaned thoroughly.

Now, being off the grain food, I give him a probiotic every morning and I now clean his ear with Zymox every night (I may skip a few nights when I'm tired) and he hasn't had an ear infection since. I don't dare use a Q-tip like the vet does instead I use a little pad soaked with that solution and it is amazing what I get out of their ears. When I take him to the vet, the vet does a more throrough cleaning with the Q-tip.

I use the Ear Cleanser (contains bio active enzymes, lactoperixidase, lactoferrin and lysozyme).
Zymox also has the Otic HC 1.0% Enzymatic solution.
I should mention that I now also use the Zymox shampoo and rinse when I bathe him monthly.
Also, when I do the nightly paw inspection, any redness or flare up, I use the Zymox Topical Spray and it works wonders.

Just thought I'd pass on that information. Good luck with Jack
Louise

[peggy0]

Re: Jack the project!

I had abbys test sent out as well Natalie after the in house came back with low thyroid. It did come back at .5. I'm having her tested again though in 30 days to see where it is. While she definately has dimentia, she has no low thyroid symptoms at all.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

I checked Jack's bloodwork... his panel in April 2010 did not check thyroid levels. The one done in February 2009 did and his level then was 1.7. Low end of normal but well within normal of 1.0-4.0.

Now his level on this new blood panel came in at less than 0.4.

I'm always suspicious of any grossly and suddenly very abnormal test result.

I had a cat when I was in my early 20s who was tested for feline leukemia by a vet who was not her usual doctor. She had a mouth infection and he had agreed to clean her teeth and let her come home the same day instead of keeping her overnight so I let them do it... a dumb decision on my part that I would never ever do now.

They tested for leukemia based on the mouth infection, running an in-office test of some kind and I saw a note on the chart when I picked her up that the result was +++, kind of screaming in red!

They wished me luck rather unsympathetically, handing me a cat with a death sentence who was still woozy from anesthesia and a bottle of vitamins and no further information about what this meant for her or any suggestion about double-checking the result.

So I balled my eyes out while she stumbled around in a fog and then I went back to her usual vet the next day to talk to her about the test. She said she had never ever seen a perfectly healthy looking cat with feline leukemia and that the test was tricky to do properly in-house so she always sent hers out to a professional lab. That my cat could happily gum her food toothless for another 20 years because she didn't believe for a moment that she had leukemia!

So we redid the test, had it sent to the big professional lab, and it came back negative. Gandy lived another 15 years and never lost another tooth.

So if you suddenly get a test result that seems really at odds with the picture your dog is giving you, it's worth investing in running the test again. Especially if the first one is run in-house with perhaps old chemicals or faulty equipment.

Right now, Jack's vet is saying more or less the same thing about Jack.

He's too young and too healthy looking to have such a low thyroid level. Doesn't make sense. So if the Free T4 with ED comes back low, we will undoubtedly wait a week or two and run a new one to be sure there wasn't some problem with processing the sample. Probably wait until he's washed the Gabapentin from his system too.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

Thanks Patty for information on the ear solution - I am definitely interested in it as I will do almost anything to avoid using topical Gentamycin.

I wish they would come up with a better product. She said there are some new ones but nothing that tackles yeast and bacteria and inflammation. Fortunately there were very few bacteria in the smear.

Apparently the vet's border collie went deaf temporarily from Gentamycin (I know it can sometimes be reversed if dealt with right away and Sue's Zoe from the Cushing's forum got some of her hearing back) so she totally understood my concern and I didn't get any lectures about how that never happens as I have with past vets, which was a relief.

He's never had an ear problem before so I'm not sure what brought it on now. He does sometimes get his ears wet when he swims but hasn't been in the water much at all recently (and has the odor to prove it!). And he hasn't shown any previous allergic tendencies.

Our backyard is very muddy and I'm sure there's a lot of mold and fungus about so maybe it's one of those that's causing problems.

Natalie

[Patty]

Re: Jack the project!

Poor Jack, Natalie. I hate he's having to go through so much pain at such a young age. I know you do too.

Ali had problems with yeast in her ears for a while. I think I've told her story several times about when we moved from IL to NY in '08. Once I latched onto the homemade ear solution for her, I've used it ever since with great results. In case you're interested, here's a couple of links with it:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/show...ndar#post22628
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/show...ndar#post35744
I only use it about once every 6 weeks or so now.

I do hope the thyroid function comes back normal! And praying the pred treatment doesn't set anything off.
Hugs to Jack
Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

Although I think the chance is exceedingly small, it is possible that he found one of Katie's Tapazole tablets for her hyperthyroid.

I'm careful and I would have had to drop one and he would have had to have found it the night before or that morning and eaten it.... I really don't think that's what happened but if the Free T4 with ED comes out low too, we might have to draw another blood sample just to be sure. In which case I'll probably just cover all of the bases and do a full thyroid panel as it was not easy to get blood from him yesterday. I'm hoping not to have to do that again right away.

I'm hoping the Free T4 with ED comes out normal.

Natalie