Border collie Jack passed away on February 28, 2022

[eileen]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Continuing with good thoughts being sent your way.

If you have a Costco handy you might check the price there. I've read time and time again that Costco pharmacies are able to offer medications at prices below most others.

Reminding that you do not have to be a Costco member to use their pharmacies.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Questions for neurologist:

1. An assessment of his current level of neuropathy on 1-10 scale.

2. An assessment of his current level of pain (while on Metacam) on 1-10 scale.

3. An assessment of his likely level of pain without Metacam on 1-10 scale.

4. Exactly what would gabapentin do in terms of pathway, mode of action, etc.?

5. If a disc is bulging into the spinal cord, how would gabapentin help?

6. If the spinal cord is only inflamed (no impingement by disc), how would gabapentin help?

7. What would cause inflammation only if there is no bulging disc?

8. If a disc is impinging on the spinal cord, how would predinisone help his neuropathy?

9. What other issues associated with the IVDD could be causing pain and inflammation?

10. If a disc is bulging into the spinal cord, what can be done surgically?

11. Are there are any other nonsurgical treatments for neuropathy from a bad disc?

12. Does removing a blown disc eliminate pain?

13. What are the risks of delaying a surgical repair if the discs are bulging?

14. Can a disk rupture once mineralized?

15. What are our pain control options?

16. Are there interactions between the pain control options and Prozac and how likely is seratonin syndrome?

17. What would indicate or contraindicate surgery?

18. What are the typical success rates and complication rates and what are the complications of surgical treatment?

19. What is the prognosis if the IVDD doesn't respond to gabapentin or steroids and cannot be treated surgically?

20. BIG question: Ballpark cost of MRI and surgery.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Thank you everyone for your very kind and helpful replies! They mean a lot to me and to Jack, who is next to my chair gnawing on a big stick of rawhide.

I have my list of questions for the neurologist and I'm hoping to schedule an appointment at a time when Jeff can be there so that he can get the information he needs directly.

We still haven't started the gabapentin but may this weekend. We haven't had a chance to really talk about it yet. I'm going to check the price at Target, which is way more convenient, and Walmart, which is way the heck across town. I'm betting Walmart will come in the lowest...

I think the sleeplessness was flu related. I have slept well the last two nights and finally feel like I'm truly over it.

I will list my questions in another post and welcome suggestions for anything I have missed.

Then it's off to try to get some work done.

Natalie

[BestBuddy]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Hi Natalie,

You have a lot of decisions to find the best for Jack. Back or any sort of joint pain is debilitating. Not only the actual pain but everything you do is done using different muscles just to be able to get by. You walk differently which is hard on other parts of the body and it is so tiring that everything seems like a marathon.

You know I have dealt with diabetes and also cushings with my dogs and I have a very healthy respect on the dangers but I take prednisone and have for a few years and it is the only thing that gets me through the day. It's a matter of weighing up the side effects against quality of life and keeping a check that it isn't causing more serious issues. Even knowing what I know about the drug I would consider giving it to a dog again after of course doing my research to know what the choices were.

Jenny

[Patty]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

That sounds like a wise idea...making an appointment without Jack and hoping the vet is engaged 100%. Also sounds like an MRI is warranted especially since Jack is so young. I know its pricey as well.

I completely understand your resistance to steroids. IMHO the veterinary community uses them too freely. I said no I can't count how many times when Ali's allergies flared miserably, always looking for other avenues. The year she developed diabetes was when I said yes to them again in an effort to bring her immediate relief...

I share your questions as to whether the neurontin vs. steroid treatment would help. Seems to me he's recommending an experiment - try this, if it doesn't help then we try that, not really knowing the root of the problem.

Praying for enlightenment Natalie!
Patty

[gail]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Natalie you first need to take care of yourself. With a rested clear mind you as Jack's mommy, will know what is best for him. Take a step back. If a board member had the same problem with their dog, what would you advise them to do? Follow YOUR instincts. They are the best. Gail

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

I think I really need to get some of my questions answered so will probably make an appointment with him and just leave Jack at home. That's what I did the last time a vet got bombarded and couldn't give me the information I needed and it worked well to get things sorted out.

Natalie

[MaryLea]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

We did not have time to sort out Ruffles' back problems and things related. When she was put on Metacam, she reacted with much anxiety, so we changed to Previcox. The main difference I saw was that the anxiety was almost immediate with Metacam (given as liquid with evening meals) whereas it was delayed six to ten hours with Previcox (given as tabs w/meals) and not as severe, it seemed. Hindsight makes me wonder if both reactions were not trying to tell us that was the wrong type of med. Vets said they had not seen this type of reaction to these meds.

Don't know if this relates at all to Jack's situation. Take a deep breath and, as mentioned by someone else, take care of yourself. You have been and are a great advocate for him!

Sending support and best wishes to Jack and his "folks."

[pgcor]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Natalie - I agree with Louise, you sound like you're running on empty. I hope you know that Jack's life would be considerably shortened if you did not adopt him. You're methodical and precise and intuitively seem to understand medical issues - you will do what's best for Jack.

Try not to stress yourself in the meantime though.

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

I too have no knowledge of this condition and can only offer support.

You sound like you are running on a <tank low of energy<. Don't forget to also take care of yourself.

Good luck

Louise

[eileen]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Natalie,

I have nothing to offer except my support and all the positive vibes I can muster up for Jack, and you.

I follow silently, with interest.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

I go back and forth on this Bonnie. It's possible the discs are bulging and should be removed. It's also possible that it's just inflamed and that it would settle down with a serious hit of anti-inflammatory treatment (hence my confusion about whether Gabapentin attacks the actual problem).

We would need the MRI to sort that out.

When he had the first acute attack of pain, we rested him for two or three weeks and gave Metacam and he fully recovered - good reflexes, no sign of pain for about six months.

This time, it's breaking through the Metacam even though he's a lot less active now than he was this spring.

One of the things I said at the beginning that seemed to annoy the neurologist was whether we should x-ray it again to see if it has progressed.

He thought I meant whether the discs we knew about had gotten worse, which I realize can't be seen on an x-ray. I was talking about just checking to see if any new discs seem to be involved.

I think we can try the Gabapentin for a few weeks - Jeff seems to be moving toward being okay with trying it - and talk about doing the MRI so we actually know what's going on with him... although a trial of steroids would probably also answer that question.

It's not very rational but I am slow to commit to anything that requires anesthesia. And even slower to commit to surgery - depending on what the surgery would be for. There is the potential, even if it's small, to make things worse, not better. I have to balance that with what I hope will be 10+ years of Jack's life. He could be the equivalent of a very old dog in two or three years if we can't get a better handle on this.

Natalie

[bgdavis]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Natalie,

I've only had one dog with any type of neurology problem and that was the result of a much more serious and fatal problem.

I'm sorry that Jack is having such problems. My only question would be if putting off a MRI and possible surgery until such time that Jack is 'worse', would make repair more difficult. I mean is this a progressing type of damage?

Hugs,
Bonnie and Angel Criss

[jjefferjo]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Natalie,
Eddie and I are watching and sending hugs.
Jj

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Jack: bad back and anxiety issues

Wow Natalie. I didn't even realize this stuff was going on with Jack.

Gabapentin was what they wanted to put Soaphie on for her back. After feedback here (and research) we opted to stick with the deramaxx/robaxin combo (and it seems to help her when she needs it).

So sorry you are going through this.

Tami, Syd and Soapherific