pug collapsing

[Joan]

Emmitt is an 11 yr old diabetic. He has collapsed trachea, and coughs, mostly at night. He is on lasix on and off for that, on really bad days he is on 1mg of torbutrol, a narcotic very effective at cough suppression. It is also very efficient at lowering glucose!!

ON Wed, came home after a few hrs in town, and he was staggering, grabbed the glucometer and he was 128. He was fine within a few mintues.

Thursday after breakfast and insulin, he was walking into the living rm, and just collapsed onto his side and panting. I rushed to help him, and again in a minute or less he was fine. Gums were bright red, and he panted for about 2 minutes and then was fine. He did exactly the same thing at 10am. Both times his bg was about 150.

Went to the vet in the afternoon, and he thinks a heart problem. Put him on vetmedin, (that makes 3 pugs on it currently), and cephalexin just in case of infection of some sort. You cant tell with him on blood tests as his WBC is constantly way high out of range.

At 4m this morning, he jumped off the bed, half way down the hall he collapsed once again, and not able to get up till I got to him. Again his bg was 180. At 9am today same thing again.

Has anyone experienced this sort of thing? Not really doubting my vet, but could use more insight if you have gone thru this!!

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: pug collapsing

Wow!
Any of these fit?

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/...epsy_cataplexy

http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-inform...ni-stroke.aspx

http://www.bearscampnewfs.com/health...tric%20Dog.pdf

[Joan]

Re: pug collapsing

Wow!
Any of these fit?

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/...epsy_cataplexy

http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-inform...ni-stroke.aspx

http://www.bearscampnewfs.com/health...tric%20Dog.pdf

wow you have done great research. I was tied up all morning, but quickly googled the collapsing and got not a lot!

Think the syncope, fainting from heart arrythmia is the closest. Heart is what my vet diagnosed, thus the lasix and vetmedin.

I kind of ruled out seizures, have had dogs with that, and this does not fit the bill. One of our current pugs, had seizures regularly for months, was on zonisamide for months, finally a light bulb went on and I checked his bg during a seizure and he was 42. He is not diabetic, but runs low constantly. Since I changed his feeding to 4X daily, do not allow him to miss a meal as he used to beause of CAH, he has not had a seizure in a yr. and no zonisamide.

My vet here makes such quick decisions, with practically no tests that it makes me nervous sometimes. When he said heart yesterday, all the way home I was thinking "really"? But thru the articles you mentioned, and further research I think that the fainting is more syncope.....heart troubles. Somehow I want scientific proof, but with all these pugs, and all their problems, I have yet to find the vet mistaken. Jut looking for confirmation I guess from someone who has been there. My vet has actually saved me 1000s of dollars with his diagnostic skills, every time I ask him for a test to confirm (blood, xray etc), he smiles, nods and then it comes back confirming his dx.

Poor little Emmitt, diabetic, collapsed trachea, and now this! Not fair for a sweet little guy to have so many problems. Hopefully the drugs will resolve this, he (and I) have had enough. When he went down this morning at 4am, I heard him and trying to get out of bed quickly is not easy when you have about 11 other pugs lying on, or around, you. Wonder I didn't do one of them harm, flinging them off me.

Thanks again for the info.

[k9diabetes]

Re: pug collapsing

He didn't do any testing before going with heart medication?

Did he say whether he heard a murmur or other indication or took an x-ray to see if the heart seemed to be enlarged?

Heart is my first thought as well, but I wouldn't be comfortable treating for that without a better idea of what's going on.

Natalie

[Joan]

Re: pug collapsing

We had originally diagnosed Emmitt with enlarged heart seen on the xray for collapsed trachea. At that time we put him on lasix, which I have administered on and off depending on his cough.

In addition this time, the femoral pulse on the hind legs was practically non existent. We have 2 other pugs on vetmedin one for fainting and one for fluid on the lungs and both have weak pulse on the back. On the one that fainted, there was such a difference in just a few wks in his energy level and the use of the back legs.

Emmitt had another "episode" about 7pm tonight, and one outside just before dinner at 5pm. He gets glassy eyed, and then just drops, bright red gums, heart races for about a minute. Seems fine within 2 minutes. Not kidding ourselves here, this is getting more often, and not a good direction to be heading in.

Could use prayers for Emmitt. He doesn't deserve this for sure.

[jesse girl]

Re: pug collapsing

jesse has a similar affect with the gums getting bright red when she has a seizure from epilepsy

also if her blood sugar is high or low spiking and dropping can cause it also

wish i knew joan

a prayer from me and jesse to your emmit to figure this out and get back on track

[Joan]

Re: pug collapsing

Thks for the prayers and the advice

[abdamurph]

Re: pug collapsing

Murphy was just diagnosed two weeks ago with DCM Dialated Cardiomyopathy and his symptons sound very much the same. But he was diagnosed after having a Ecocardiogram by a cardiologist and then put on meds like you, Vetmedin, lasix and two others. He is also diabetic for almost 2 1/2 years and I feel the same as you, poor guy hard enough with the diabetes and now this is devastating. The meds are so expensive and I am unemployed so all of this is really overwhelming. So far he has had a couple of fainting spells but I'm hoping with all these meds it will get better, he seems stronger still loves walks, eats well and is playful so keeping my fingers crossed and saying prayers every night. Good luck but I do think it does sound like heart disease as your Vet suggested. Also FYI have you tried buying the Vetmedin/Pimobendan from Canadian online pharmacies, they are much cheaper, check out abcpetmeds.com.

[Joan]

Re: pug collapsing

Hi Christina, good to hear from you, its been a while.

Sorry to hear about Murphy....but glad he is responding to the meds. What did the vet give besides the lasix and vetmedin?

Emmitt seems a bit better today, but too soon to start the party. He has
been regurgitating food at an alarming rate, it scares him so. Changed his protein to venison today and that has seemed to help. I think in the 9 months since we adopted him he must have had 15 different diets. He responds to each change for a few weeks, and then just stops eating. Perhaps I will try a buffet next!

Hope you and Murph have a great and healthy Christmas.

Hugs from the pug herd Joan

[abdamurph]

Re: pug collapsing

Hi Joan just realized who you were! The other meds Murphy is on for his heart is Benzapril and Spironolactone which thank goodness are not as expensive as the Vetmedin. And also he is on an over the counter supplement called Taurine which is suppose to be very helpful for the heart. He seems to be doing well but as you probably know when it's heart related I have been told anything can happen even when he appears fine one minute but we are just taking one day at a time, all we can do at this point. Good luck with your pug(s) and have a wonderful Holiday!

[k9diabetes]

Re: pug collapsing

I'm sorry to hear that Emmitt's struggles are becoming frequent... poor little guy. It's good that he's surrounded by good people like you.

Natalie

[Joan]

Re: pug collapsing

Hi Joan just realized who you were! The other meds Murphy is on for his heart is Benzapril and Spironolactone which thank goodness are not as expensive as the Vetmedin. And also he is on an over the counter supplement called Taurine which is suppose to be very helpful for the heart. He seems to be doing well but as you probably know when it's heart related I have been told anything can happen even when he appears fine one minute but we are just taking one day at a time, all we can do at this point. Good luck with your pug(s) and have a wonderful Holiday!

Familiar with the Spironolactone, one little one with CRF had to have that along with the lasix, vet said it would smooth out the effects of the lasix. Not sure if it did or not, but we were pretty far along in the process before we tried it. Do not know anything about Benzapril, will look it up.

Emmitt is doing better, no incidents in the last 24 hrs, and he has managed to keep him meals down. Went to 4 meals per day, different food, less insulin, Oh what fun it is!

[Joan]

Re: pug collapsing

Murphy was just diagnosed two weeks ago with DCM Dialated Cardiomyopathy and his symptons sound very much the same. But he was diagnosed after having a Ecocardiogram by a cardiologist and then put on meds like you, Vetmedin, lasix and two others. He is also diabetic for almost 2 1/2 years and I feel the same as you, poor guy hard enough with the diabetes and now this is devastating. The meds are so expensive and I am unemployed so all of this is really overwhelming. So far he has had a couple of fainting spells but I'm hoping with all these meds it will get better, he seems stronger still loves walks, eats well and is playful so keeping my fingers crossed and saying prayers every night. Good luck but I do think it does sound like heart disease as your Vet suggested. Also FYI have you tried buying the Vetmedin/Pimobendan from Canadian online pharmacies, they are much cheaper, check out abcpetmeds.com.

Thanks for the tip on vetmedin. Yes the prices there are about half of what I am paying, and with 3 pugs currently on it, that is huge.

I was doing a little more research as things are quiet on the homefront this morning. May not last LOL! And finding that many doggie parents are supplementing with Taurine. It is OTC, and very useful for heart DCM, seizures, and some holistic vets are even using it to help level diabetes. Can't hurt, so will give it a try, pretty inexpensive.