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-   -   Help with Mocca's levemir dose (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7455)

jesse girl 11-19-2017 09:32 PM

Re: Levemir?
i am curious how you got to 20 units and what was regulation like before the hypo event

do you have any past curves during the regulation process at different doses leading up to the 20 units

some of that history could help to determine a dose that maybe adequate

amydunn19 11-19-2017 09:37 PM

Re: Levemir?
I understand what you are proposing - all of the specific terminology is a bit over my head, but in theory it would make sense. But, our dogs don’t exist in theory and you have to be careful with making assumptions based on the way things should go according to all we know about diabetes. For example, the dog had a higher reading in the morning so you said you assumed that things stabilized overnight but without testing, you do not know this. My dog was the ultimate rebel when it came to her blood sugar doing what it was “supposed” to do. It is almost like she knew it and decided to drop like a rock randomly just to keep me guessing.

Also, the bladder infection is in play and blood sugar can drop drastically as it goes away.

Our motto around here is you can’t really go by “the book” when our dogs can’t read any of the books. They just don’t always respond the way they are supposed to.

stylynjm 11-19-2017 09:41 PM

Re: Levemir?
Completely agree with others..stay with 5 units for example, same time,same food and give pup some time to get adjusted...time is your friend...you can not hurry this process, as many of us learned over years of experience! !!

moccasgrampa 11-20-2017 07:18 AM

Re: Levemir?
Jesse Girl : We don't have any background data as the dog is our daughters and she went out of town for a week or so and left us instructions re the 20 units. After the hypo crash and overnight stay at emergency vet, and my rush to research things, we quickly discarded that level of injection and started measuring BG. The only thing we can think is that the dog gets too much inappropriate treats at home necessitating the higher dose then she comes here and gets nothing but her food so the dose crashed her but until we talk to our daughter it is just conjecture on our part

I did the 5 before dinner and 5 after dinner last night. BG was 27.2 / 489 yesterday afternoon. This morning BG is 16.4 / 295, not too bad but still a tad high so I gave her 7 units. I'll check her again early afternoon. We seem to be narrowing down to the 5 - 7 unit range.

We hope to hand the dog back tomorrow night or Wednesday morning at the latest and take a valium, lol.

Judi 11-20-2017 07:42 AM

Re: Levemir?
lol, lucky dog to have you guys for grandparents! hang in there!

stylynjm 11-20-2017 08:53 AM

Re: Levemir?
Hope pups parents will continue your diligence, for pups sake..

moccasgrampa 11-20-2017 09:28 AM

Re: Levemir?
Thanks folks for all the replies and apologies to this threads OP for somewhat highjacking the thread but I tried to start a thread of my own at first and was denied so had to piggyback on an existing thread in my haste to get info. NOTE: Administrator seems to have segregated posts related to Mocca into their own thread after original postings

We're not too interested in dog sitting again for any extended period but can't help but think if our daughter had a neighbor dog sit her following the instructions given that Mocca would not be here now. We'll be having a discussion with the daughter and family when she gets back.

moccasgrampa 11-20-2017 12:35 PM

Re: Levemir?
Mocca BG at 2 PM was 20.9 / 376, again, not too bad but still high, will check again before dinner feeding & injection I think, then again before bed.

When I said one last question in post 15 I lied! Mocca is given small Milkbone biscuits at home (how many per day I don't know) and 1/2 a biscuit as a treat here after getting perforated for a blood sample or getting an injection. I just looked at the ingredients list & breakdown on the box. What are opinions on these for diabetic dogs? Obviously anything in moderation is a general rule, but what about this particular biscuit specifically?

edit: my concern about the milkbone biscuits related to 18 kcal rating per biscuit, which I have now clarifed with respect to Calorie, whew.

Raysaint 11-20-2017 07:17 PM

Re: Levemir?
most biscuit type treats are high in carbs, so they'll raise blood sugar. Biscuit type treats are usually made from wheat or grains or potatoes as a main ingredient.
I only give biscuits if he is getting low as he approaches nadir time.

Lots of good treats out there that are low or no carb.

moccasgrampa 11-22-2017 07:12 AM

Re: Help with Mocca's levemir dose
One last post for continuity sake, mostly for others reading this thread searching for helpful info like we did when first coming here in a somewhat desperate frenzied search.

Tuesday morning BG was 27.2 / 489, too high for comfort (I think we gave her 7 units at dinner time last night). She was given 9 units Levemir one hour ahead of breakfast. BG at 2PM was 23.2 / 417 and at 7PM was 15.3 / 275, nice! She was then given 7 units and dinner.

We handed Mocca back Tuesday night and discussed her situation with the following 'highlights':

- Mocca was tried on a canine insulin at first but has been on Levemir for quite a while
- daughter says hubby gives Mocca too many 'treats' necessitating a higher insulin dose so his knuckles need to be whacked
- resetting the BG meter code setting when changing insulin was overlooked so she was basing dosage on falsely high readings but that has now been corrected
- dosage in the 7-9 units seems to be a sweet spot (he says hopefully, lol)

My blood pressure hasn't come down yet from this rollercoaster ride, but I sincerely thank all responders for their comments. I'm sure you all recall your initial anxiety when starting to deal with this.

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