Pugsley became an angel...

[Judi]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

We are finding this impossibly stressful. It wouldn't be too bad if he was the kind of old dog that slept all the time but he's fairly active and it's hell trying to follow him everywhere as his eyesight has gone completely now. He bumps into everything, he has to have his cone on most of the time. I'm at work in the day and my wife works from home. She's finding it impossible to work and watch over him. She's getting really depressed over it and we are arguing. I don't know how much longer we can keep on doing this. It's not so much the diabetes - I know we haven't got his bloods under control yet - it's the blindness. We are both desperate to offload him onto the other one at the first opportunity - which sounds awful as we genuinely adore him - but the stress levels are very high. At this rate I'm genuinely not certain which of the three of us is going to die first. I've had a heart attack in the past and my wife is diabetic herself with high blood pressure.

Dogs are really adaptable with the blindness. With my Jenny once she bumped into things she figured out her territory. We fenced some areas off like stairways. Natalie has a video somewhere of her Chris who I think she compared to a bumper car. Watching that video helped me when Jenny first went blind. Hang in there. I took my blind Jenny to visit my parents in a very crowded house. She figured out where her food and bed were quickly, her nose did all of the work.

I'd try to block off the scary areas and let him bump around a little. We put some extra rugs down to try to give our dog things by feel to help her gain perspective.

[Aneng]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

Thanks so much to everyone replying. It helps to know I'm not alone. Pugsley's blood glucose has not shifted much at all from the 500's. Although a test today put him at 15.8 (sorry can't convert at the moment) which is the closest to normal he's got so far. The vet doesn't know this new figure yet but advised an increase to 6 units twice daily. She was warning me that she wouldn't want to take it much higher as he might suddenly crash. She also warned that he's on the edge of going into ketoacidosis and suggested euthenasia might be a kinder option soon.

I've changed his diet as I read that his original food contained brown rice which is not the super food it's claimed to be as it's still carbs. His fibre supplement he got every day was also made with sugar beet fibre and other things with fructo-something so I've stopped that too.

I need ideas on what to feed him as I'm clueless. I'm happy to cook anything for him or buy commercial food if that's better.

I have this terrible sinking feeling that I'm going to lose my best friend and I'm going to have to take him to his death. I'll do anything to save him.

[jesse girl]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

I think raising the dose to what is considered insulin resistant which is your dogs weight total to the amount of insulin for one dose of insulin . An example would be a 10 pound dog getting 10 units of insulin per dose .So you raise or lower based on the lowest number in the curve

I have seen dogs on this forum including my jesse have high numbers like your pup and once on insulin never went ketoacidosis. If not showing fairly extreme symptoms of thirst and urination I would not be concerned about it and have not heard a vet make that comment before .

Dogs crashing with testing at home is actually quite rare . It would take allot of insulin above what was needed for that to happen in most cases. So onc3e agin focus on regulation and you dont need a vet to accomplish that . I gave up on jesse vet over 11 years ago and went it alone with the help of the forum to guide me .It not complicated.

As far as food I home cooked for Jesse . I grind up green leaf and other vegetables in a food processor ,hard boiled egg ,canned mackerel , pinto beans, chicken and garnet yam sweet potatoes ( carbs are a necessary component in k9 diabetes ) . This diet worked well for Jesse living 11 years with the disease to an age of 16 and diabetes did not affect her life and she did not die from it

You can post some curves if you would like and we can have a look

[Judi]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

Jenny was high for a few months too. It turned out she had cushings but my vet just slowly kept raising the dose. Like JesseGirl said, you are monitoring him. He shouldn't go into ketoacidosis.

I obsessed over food for a long time. Felt like it had to be perfect. My vet recommended one of the canned foods that everyone criticizes. My dog's eye doctor recommended another canned food. The bottom line is that you want to feed them what they will eat. Dogs that won't eat are harder to regulate.

We used both of those canned foods for a couple of years until she got sicker and wouldn't eat them.

Fiber is good to help the insulin last. Consistency matters so the food goes with the insulin dose.

So, pick something that he will eat, stick to it, and give him the same amounts every day. I had special duck jerky treats for when I gave insulin. I was consistent with it! LOL

The bottom line is don't drive yourself crazy. You don't have to be perfect. Just be consistent.

Judi

[Aneng]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

As far as food I home cooked for Jesse . I grind up green leaf and other vegetables in a food processor ,hard boiled egg ,canned mackerel , pinto beans, chicken and garnet yam sweet potatoes ( carbs are a necessary component in k9 diabetes )

Could you give me quantities for that recipe please ? That sounds very nutritious and if it worked for Jesse, it should also work for Pugsley. Thanks !

[Aneng]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

He was 558 yesterday and is 378 today. This is like six weeks or more now of high glucose levels. I'm getting really scared that he might go into ketoacidosis.

How long can a dog stay with these levels before it becomes a serious risk?

[jesse girl]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

It was a third of a cup for the chicken ,pinto beans and greens and vegies . the caned mackerel was a big spoon of it . She got 2 hardboiled eggs but switched to one last year . the yam was a big spoon of it . I used powdered egg shells for calcium that i grind up in a coffee grinder . Had plenty of shell from the hard boiled eggs

One blood sugar number has little meaning as its just one moment in time

How are physical symptoms as far as drinking and urination ?

[Aneng]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

Just an update.... after talking to one of his previous vets, who advised increasing his insulin to 8 units twice daily, his blood sugars have finally come down to normal levels. Unfortunately, he is now almost completely blind and deaf. The biggest problem we have now is that he will not tolerate being left alone. I don't mean 'left alone in an empty house' - I mean 'have nobody physically next to him for more than 30 seconds'. He barks and barks and barks until someone sits next to him to smooth him.

We can't do anything... we can't go anywhere... I can't even cook a meal if I'm in the house alone with him, unless I have him in my arms and try to prepare food one-handed.

How can I get around this ?

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

hi

sorry your having this problem. he must be scared. but on the other hand you have a life.

you could try borrowing a good sized open crate and put him in it for a few minutes at a time maybe put it in the kitchen. leave the door open for a few times then give him atreat and close the door for say 15 minutes at a time.

getting him a friend might help more work for you though.

getting him a dog sitter maybe

so glad your getting him regulated.

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

We were diagnosed (Max my Corgi) and me his caregiver about the same time. While I don’t have Max under control by any stretch, I do understand a lot more about this trying condition! You really need to do more frequent curves to understand what he reacts to, and BTW, stress is a big one easily felt thru you! If you haven’t read it, “The other end of the Leash” taught me a lot in dealing with my rescued GSD who was probably ex-military or a peace officer’s dog based on training received before we adopted him. He has PTSD and I’ve read a LOT about this in dogs…
I don’t recommend home cooking either as you are stressed out enough about cooking for yourself, let alone your dog… Diets need to be balanced and this, in cooking for a dog, is way more difficult than cooking for a person, IMHO. That said, you can add fresh foods to your dog’s kibble! And I’ve found this can make a big difference in BG numbers! I feed Acana Heritage meats, which is grain free. I also add grated zucchini and baked, skinless chicken breast to his kibble. He’s done really well with this, but PLEASE pass it by your vet before you choice to go this route as you6’re now looking at Ketoacidosis!
If you do really want to do the total home cooked diet, please consult a professional! One suggestion would be Monica Segal as I trust her, she’s has a background and a degree in animal nutrition.
Hang in there!
Donna and Max the Corgi

[Aneng]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

His endless barking for more food is also driving us crazy. We've just today tried moving to a three meal per day regime with his previous 2 X 8 unit injections given as 3 X 5.5 unit injections.

We have no life of our own now. It's endless barking... when he's left alone for two minutes, when he's hungry, when we're eating (and he also tries to get to our food), when he wakes at 4am for a pee etc etc. I get home from work and my wife, who's had him all day, is on the verge of a nervous breakdown so I take him from her and we are in separate rooms so she gets a break.

It's just unbearable.

[jesse girl]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

With my Jesse she had many ups and downs being diabetic . The most difficult she developed dogie dementia . I always found ways to accept what reality we were in and work with it . Sometimes I had to ignore her as waiting on her hand and foot was not sustainable . She walked in circles ,got stuck in corners and went to the bathroom in the house . I put diapers on her to handle the last thing and I did not save her from a problem . At times she barked at night and just let her be . She had an appetite but kind of forgot how to eat and would make quite a mess .I had to separate myself like say a doctor with a patient . I believe there is a solution to every problem that lays undiscovered My Jesse lived longer than most with diabetics and epilepsy with just figuring out solutions to challenges
Yes it takes work and some frustration but me and he always found a way to have a wonderful life together .

[k9diabetes]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

There are many good anti-anxiety medications for dogs - seems like that might be something to pursue - if only to see if it's anxiety or dementia or hunger.

The dog we have now is not diabetic but is fear aggressive and he has been on Prozac now for years. It has helped many dogs be less fearful. There are other anti-depressant medications used in dogs as well. I like Prozac though as it has basically no side effects

The other test you could do would be to set aside a day to feed him small meals throughout the day and just see if that stops the barking. You'd have to reduce the insulin to be safe from low blood sugar. But if you spent one day basically feeding him every hour and he stops barking, you would have an answer.

If feeding him every hour doesn't help, I recommend exploring medication to help him with his anxiety - the barking and the separation anxiety. That's a miserable way to live for him too and it's quite possible you can help him feel better and get your life back.

Natalie

[Aneng]

Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

Hi again.

I managed to get a Freestyle Libre attached to Pugsley and have been struggling to get control of his glucose. I've been tweaking food and insulin dose but I can't seem to get any kind of sensible consistency.

Check out his curves... He usually gets fed twice daily - about 7am & 7pm, though these tend to move slightly depending on how annoying he is, barking constantly for food.











There are a couple of confusing results - such as 28th Nov when his glucose barely moved after his breakfast. Same thing again today ! What's that all about ????

Bear in mind that 500 mg/dl is the maximum the meter can read, so where you see a curve climbing to 500 then going flat - that just means the actual reading is over 500.

These curves look nothing like the 'ideal' curves I've seen on various sites.
I'm also puzzled why his glucose climbs so rapidly and to such a high level - is that normal (particularly the level) ??

A couple of times I've had to feed him when his level dropped to about 64 and on one occasion I broke out the emergency glucose gel when it hit 50.

I'm struggling here..... help me my lovely friends !

xx

[jesse girl]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

Looks like classic rebound to me and it's very consistent . When blood sugar dips below a 100 you get a big spike . If this has been going on for awhile it maybe difficult to settle the body down .
Did the aggressive appetite come after being diagnosed diabetic ?

Now the last curve looks really good . Was anything different that day . Appetite different that day