Bailey got his wings... June 26, 2014

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

No, very happy with that number, I only hope it does not sky rocket up to 30 again. You're right however, calm down Geoff.......I will check him on the weekend and give this new food time to settle in. At night though this week he seems to run low on insulin and runs into the 30's. This could be as Tara said that he is chewing up all his insulin on the rice etc in the kibble and by 4:30pm he is out. Not sure. Will see tomorrow. Thanks.

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Hi Geoff, I thought it would be worth mentioning that if you aren't having success with the food change or to help you while trying to work on the food change, you might consider using a fast acting insulin. It is a little trickier and it does take more monitoring and supervision to do it safely.

My dog Ruby has a similar sort of curve. While I have her on what I think is the most appropriate food she still goes very high after eating if I don't use either Humalog or R. The enzymes she has added to her food for the EPI (exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) predigests her food. Without the fast acting insulins she would raise about 300 points and then stay high for about five hours.

Here is a link to a post that has the different insulin profiles on it:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/show...20&postcount=1

For Ruby the humalog last 3 hrs and she also burns through R in about 3 1/2 hrs., but she goes through all of the insulins pretty fast.

I am not sure if you would be able to use these without a script. In the US the R can be bought without a script, but the humalog needs one from your vet. The humalog is pretty pricey, but nice to work with as it is a little more predictable in it's action time then R. I was able to get a coupon online for my first box of 5 x 3ml pens for free. You can draw up from a pen the same as you would from a vial. As it is a clear insulin it tends to keep much longer then cloudy insulins. I am only just finishing up the 1st pen and have been using it since this summer.

I base the dose of the R or H on the fasting number. Because Ruby gets such a huge rise I have to hit it pretty hard. If you did try it I would start very cautiously and be home to the first day you use it . Keep in mind that as you lower the food rise you might not need as much of your other insulin...PZI, am I remembering that correctly?

Tara

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Thanks Tara, I will see how I go this weekend with his food and insulin. Hopefully with a bit of juggling I can get it sorted....famous last words with diabetes! It is a learning experience!

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Hello. Well so far ok but just now at 6pm he was 25.5 but we had 2 9.4's in the afternoon. I am just not sure what to do here. How can I wait two weeks for his food to settle in when he is reading so high?? I think it might be the new tinned food. I will run a full curve tomorrow but all these spot checks reveal high bc. Should I remove the kibble to see if that is making him go high or remove the wet food or just wait?? I really is quite confusing and stressful!! I gotta tell you I am thinking of the Hills W/D!

Cheers,

Geoff

[Patty]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

I'll be curious to see how your curve comes out. 169 to 450 is a large span. How long on the new food routine now?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

I don't think you have to wait weeks to evaluate a food routine change. The curve should tell you what you need to know about whether to continue as is or tweak further. There is essentially an instant dynamic to the food-insulin balance and that's what you're trying to assess.

Anxious to see what the curve says.

Natalie

[Geoff]

Re: Geoff: A question about meter problem

Hello! Well, after Friday night he started to stretch a little more than usual which to mean is a 100% sign of stomach discomfort, what (could) follow is vomiting, not eating and other stuff I do not want to see. I knew the wet food I was giving him was not 100% agreeing with him. I have switched him back to Hills Savory Chicken Entree 7+ which to be honest I never had trouble with apart from his curves being erratic. So, I have almost finished his curve, I was not home all day but have done my best.

8-Oct 8:09am 15.3 Fasting 275.4
8-Oct 9:13am 24.5 441
8-Oct 12:51am 18.4 331.2
8-Oct 2:00pm 15.3 275.4
8-Oct 4:17pm 9.7 174.6
8-Oct 5:18pm 9.6 172.8
8-Oct 7:11pm 12.8 230.4
8-Oct 8:01pm 18.8 Fasting 338.4


Overall a good curve, dinner is in 45 mins (now 7:15pm here) so will check before then post final results. The other food made his insulin run out I think last week too early. Thanks for everyone's support on this, much appreciated! I fed him 1/3 of his kibble at breakfast and the remainder at 9:10am (as we had to go out) Seems to take him quite awhile to come down and he goes up quickly. (after eating)

Geoff

[Geoff]

Regulating Bailey

Hello all. I thought I would start a new thread for Bailey on how to better regulate his BC levels. His latest curve was:

Date Time mmol comments mg/dl
8-Oct 8:09am 15.3 Fasting 275.4
8-Oct 9:13am 24.5 441
8-Oct 12:51am 18.4 331.2
8-Oct 2:00pm 15.3 275.4
8-Oct 4:17pm 9.7 174.6
8-Oct 5:18pm 9.6 172.8
8-Oct 7:11pm 12.8 230.4
8-Oct 8:01pm 18.8 Fasting 338.4

I have tried some different food but that did not help but in fact made it worse. I have read on here about people using R to assist in bringing down the quick spike after food and was wondering would this suit Bailey?

Geoff

[jesse girl]

Re: Regulating Bailey

you can use r and bailey is appropriate with that big jump after fasting

you may have to reduce the insulin bailyes on now so the drop that is occurring which is quite large will be reduced

kind of like baking a cake you may have to add a bit of r to reduce the spike but may have to reduce baileys everyday insulin to reduce the later drop

if you do want to use it go slow i dont know how much insulin bailey is getting my jesse gets a half unit or less of r with maybe 4 units of nph

if fasting is lower to start i will not use it at all its what we use to adjust depending on her fasting

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Hello, sorry, Bailey is on 12 units (twice a day at meals 8am & 8pm) of Protaphane (Australia) which is the intermediate one I believe. I think I'll have to consult the vet in any case as I can't get that over the counter here (doubtful anyhow) I assume we're talking about "Humulin R" Could be a different name in US than Australia?

[jesse girl]

Re: Regulating Bailey

it has been a valuable tool for jesse because she has been unstable since the beginning

for me what our goals are is to try to keep her in a better range for more of the day and if we accomplish that we are happy

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Hey Geoff, If you have to get a script for the R anyway I would also be thinking about a script for Humalog. It might be the easier one to start with as it is usually gone in three ish hours. R can be a little trickier to figure out how long it is lasting. Even though the food rise seems to last about 6 hrs. I think humalog would still probably give enough time to make a big difference. For me it was a little less scary to start out with the humalog so if I made a miscalculation the duration was shorter. I do sometimes use R and am not afraid of it anymore, but when tweaking or trying something new I always revert back to the humalog due to how clear it's action is for me.

I purchased the box of 5 x 3 ml pens. You can draw up from a pen the same as you do from a vial. It was expensive, but I was able to get a coupon online for the first box free.

As you know Ruby gets a similar food rise and I switched her to one meal a day last month. It has really helped. She still gets insulin when she doesn't eat it is just a reduced dose like you would do if you had to fast the dog or if they were sick.

hope this helps, Tara

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Thanks Tara, I'm not sure of the difference between the two? Here is a site which shows the types of insulin we can get over here:

http://www.nps.org.au/conditions/typ...e_in_australia

Looks like the R lasts longer whilst the Humalog is shorter lasting? From that site you can see Humalog 25 and 50? Is this the same insulin you are using?

Thanks,

Geoff

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Regulating Bailey

The humalog I use is the straight Humalog. I think the 25s or the 50s are a mix of the fast (humalog) and the intermediate (neutral protamine lispro). The disadvantage of the mixes is that you aren't able to measure out only what you need of each one, you are stuck with either the 75/25 or 50/50 combo.

Here is a link to the action profile of the different insulins which I think would be comparable.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/show...20&postcount=1

Know though that these are guidelines as to how they work in most, but you will have to determine time frames in Bailey.

[Geoff]

Re: Regulating Bailey

Ahhh, ooops. At the top of that list is the Humalog (insulin lispro) A very short acting insulin. Ok so you think this is more "forgiving" than the "R"? Or at least it goes through the system quicker.