Apollo

[We Hope]

Re: Apollo

Debbie,

The high bg's can be from the possible pancreatitis and also possible because of the hyperlipidemia. The hyperlipidemia could be the cause of pancreatitis.

Sometimes part of the treatment for pancreatitis is not to give anything by mouth for a time period set by your vet--nil per os (nothing via mouth). This allows the pancreas to "rest" a bit and try to recover.

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Pancreatitis

Part of this treatment can be giving sub-Q fluids because they "bypass" the oral route.

I'd tell your vet about Apollo's high bg's on the urine strips and get his/her advice about increasing his insulin and by how much. My worry is that he's throwing up the morning meal and that doesn't leave anything for the morning insulin to work on.

Kathy

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

I'm beginning to feel like a juggler!

Apollo has had the 'IV' treatment twice.
This was at the very beginning of our journey. pancreatitis then diabetes.

I have called and we'll be at the Vet at 2 PM. I wish there was a pill to make him all better... how much to put him through ???
OK -- one step at a time -- we can do this!

I'll touch base this evening - thanks for listening.

Debbie & Apollo

[k9diabetes]

Re: Apollo

Anxious to hear what the vet says... did they put him on a bland diet?

Natalie

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Back from the vet -- after another bill -- but who's counting

We are doing a blood workup that will be back tomorrow - at the vet his glucose was 151 --at 2:30 PM - not too bad for Apollo -- I was beginning to think maybe he was high and that's what was causing the symptoms.
Kathy, no change in his insulin dose.

The vet feels he may be at the beginnings of an infection... possibly UT, or an infection of bladder lining (Apollo has a history of bladder stones).
So far when I've tested his urine nothing alarming has shown up.
But as the vet said -- something isn't right so....

We came home with an antiobiodic - Enroflovacin -- ah and something for his eyes (Neo-Poly-Gram) -- both eyes were very bloodshot (I am sorry to admit I didn't catch that).
I am going to continue giving the Pepcid - more for prevention than anything else.

As for a bland diet Natalie -- he is on W/D dry and canned -- the vet suggested we not change at the moment.

He is resting at the moment - ate dinner fine and got his PM insulin dose. In a bit I need to wake him for his pill --

We made an outing to Pet Smart after the vet as we needed food - plus, he likes to go and check out the other dogs -- we meet a cute 2 yr old female yorkie that looked just Apollo. The little yorkie came from a breeder that turns them over to the SPCA after they are used up as breeding machines.... poor thing -- she was so scared, but really perked up when Apollo came over to her.

thanks again everyone -- I'll keep you posted -- we hope to get on the road to Florida at the end of the week, we planned to go down and help pack up our sons house -- if all goes OK with Apollo I'll be going -- if we have another rough morning, just my hubby will go.

thanks
Debbie & Apollo

[We Hope]

Re: Apollo

Debbie,

Glad to hear that Apollo's on the way to getting better with the meds!

Right now, I don't even want to think "bladder stones". About a month ago, my guy here had 120+ very small ones removed. He was giving us no real signals they were there, either.

Good to hear Apollo's bg's weren't as high as you thought they were. I think your guy's gonna start walking on the road to recovery from this one!

Kathy

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Today we took both of the dogs for grooming.
Our grommers great and is very sensitive about Apollo - so Apollo goes in while I wait and the groomer brings him right back to me -- our grommer is located at the vets office. The groomer also noticed that Apollo tummy is a bit extended.

The vet had the test results back from the blood and we went over the numbers while we were there.
Apollo's glucose was just about the only thing that looked good.
His cholesterol and triglycerides were both higher than when we ran the last blood work.

It looks like the possibility of Cushings maybe be the next thing to re-test for.
I used to go on the Cushings forum before I found this forum... can't seem to get on it right now so I'll have to take some time and hunt down the problem.

Debbie and Apollo

[acushdogsmom]

Re: Apollo

It looks like the possibility of Cushings maybe be the next thing to re-test for.
I used to go on the Cushings forum before I found this forum... can't seem to get on it right now so I'll have to take some time and hunt down the problem.

Debbie and Apollo

I think you've figured out that the Cushing's forum has moved because I just noticed that you have registered there (at the new site) and your membership has now been approved. The previous owner closed the old site without any warning (which is why you couldn't get on there). We had a temporary "home" here for a while (thanks to Natalie!) while a group of Moderators from the old cushings board got together and built a new forum/message board at http://www.k9cushings.com/forum.

Hoping you are not also dealing with Cushing's, but if you are, successfully treating both Cushing's and Diabetes together can definitely be done.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Apollo

With good blood sugar control, I'm doubtful about a Cushings diagnosis. Have them run the ACTH instead of the LDDS as that is a better test for dogs with other health problems.

It doesn't hurt to check but usually you can't get the kind of good blood sugar Apollo has when Cushings is present.

Natalie

[ladysmom06]

Re: Apollo

Hi Debbie,

Sorry to hear that Apollo is having problems.

It looks like the possibility of Cushings maybe be the next thing to re-test for.

Hoping it's not cushings but like Cushy said if it is both diseases can be treated successfully.

Good luck with the testing and keep us posted. Hugs to you and Apollo.

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Natalie thanks for the insight -- there are SO many things to consider.
Apollo had a rough afternoon & evening - he did throw up around 2:30 PM yesterday and then he had no interest in any food. Around 5 PM (his usual insulin time) I got him to eat some canned food (Sci Diet Lite - which is the can food we give Atlas)
I figured in order to give the shot that was better than nothing.
The food stayed down but the "runs" were full force -- he usually has a hard time with antibiodics.

We were out 'going -or trying to go' about every 1 1/2 hrs last night. This morning I cooked up a chicken breast - gave him about 2 tablespoons of it with some of his regular can food -- he did eat and so far it's stayed down.
I reduced his insulin to be on the safe side - only gave him 5 units.

I have a call into the vet-- today is her day off -- I am beginning to think the ultrasound will be the next step.

I am going to go back and read for some of the home meals other feed their babies.

thanks for listening.

Debbie & Apollo

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Hi

We have an appt at Univ TN on July 27th.
Going over to PU records just in case we get a call to come for an earlier appt.
I'll keep you posted.

thanks
Debbie & Apollo

[k9diabetes]

Re: Apollo

A Cushings test wouldn't be high on my list of things to do. Seems like it's the pancreatitis or maybe IBD type problem that's more pressing so I'd do an ultrasound before I'd do an ACTH test.

Natalie

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Natalie you must be a mind reader!
I was just going to propose the ? of which to do first
girl - you're good!

Apollo is doing ok right now - actually he has been playful....
he just loves to tease me!
Last week we were discussing 'arrangments' and crying --
today he's making us laugh!

I am going to ask about anything that can help lower his chl. and trig.
Also, let them know he is VERY sensitive to antibiodics... are there other options if we need them again.

I have an overnight bagged in case we need to stay overnight.
more stuff for Apollo than me

thanks guys!
Debbie & Apollo

[Debbie & Apollo]

Re: Apollo

Hi!
Well we made the trip to UT and found out lots of things about Apollo, along with waiting for some test results to come back. All in all the UT experience was very well worth the time and effort.
It’s hard to know where to start.
It has been determined that Apollos diabetes is NOT under good control, using a fructosamine test he was 473 which is high (normal is between 250 – 350). There appears to be underlining conditions which are throwing things off and will continue to hinder good diabetic control.
1) Apollo has bladder stones and also kidney stones in both kidneys. Two years ago he underwent surgery for this same condition (calcium oxalate stones – which cannot be dissolved). At the moment Apollo shows no outward signs of unariry tract infection or difficulty going potty. We are keeping a super close watch on him … what goes in and what comes out. Also I am starting to test urine samples at least once a day.
2) Apollo triglycerides were 1870, even after fasting… he is going to start a drug for this (not sure how to spell it) …gemfibrozil.
3) There appears, from the ultrasound and radiology tests, to be a spot on his pancreases and also a thickening of the walls of his intestines. Not sure about the spot on the pancreases but the intestines could mean an IBS…since he has diabetes yes there are a few drugs to help this that are not steroid based.
4) They drew a small amount of fluid from his gall bladder – tests results won’t be in for 5 days.
5) They did a urine culture – tests results in 3 days.
6) We are waiting on suggestions on diet from the nutritionists. I am going to start reading back in these threads for ideas on home food prep. I need to watch out for fat, and protein…right now I don’t remember if protein is a concern. I know it has to be low fat.
7) Recommendation to stop the Potassium Citrate, stop the Denosyl, and stop the Milk Thistle since there appears to be no advantage to him to continue these supplements.
8) Recommendation to do surgery to remove the stones in the bladder… the ones in the kidney can not be removed safely. During this time also take biopsies samples.

The situation is complex – one attempt to help Apollo tends to mess things up for something else.
He is like a scale that seems we cannot get a balance. Right now he is on W/D as it is low fat. He could use being on U/D for the help with the stones… however the fat is way too high for him.

It seems surgery will eventually be necessary to remove the stones… but if the stones are only going to RETURN… we can’t cut open this poor guy every year!
They would like to do biopsies on the two areas (the spot on the pancreases and the area in the intestines)
All of this would require him to be in the hospital for about 3 – 4 days. As you can imagine the cost is up there.

Right now we are unsure on how to proceed. 1) We are going to start the meds to try and lower the triglycerides. 2) And keep an eye on the pee 3) PLAY AND LOVE ON HIM!

Thanks for all you input, care and support!! There is a great deal to absorb.

Debbie and Apollo

[pgcor]

Re: Apollo

Oh boy Debbie...you're right that is a lot to absorb. I just wanted to say how sorry I am about Apollo not doing as well as we'd hoped. But, on the plus side, it looks like everything can be corrected. It could be years in between stones?

Anyway, I admire your fortitude! Apollo is a lucky boy and I know you feel the same way too!

Pam