Newbie needing help

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

Here are Max's numbers today - Keep in mind I've done nothing different since my last post. Food and insulin are fed the same time every day:

8-Apr
Breakfast and Insulin
5:30
Unknown
BG Test
8:00
223
BG Test
4:30
167 (cookie given)*
Dinner and Insulin
5:30
Unkown
7:00
237
I'm at my wits end! He's blind and has no excitement in his life except going for an occasional ride and Ive BG tested him at those times too, with no additional info as to why he isn't stable as he should be.

I can certainly cut down his dose to 8.5, been there, done that, and it led to readings in the 500s...
His current dose was advised to me from Tufts university.
I don't know what road to follow...sad
Donna

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

I've had an EPI dog, two Hypothyroid dogs and two IBD dogs, but a diabetic dog has me completely at a loss...
Donna

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

There is nothing that says a diabetic dog has a specific kind of regulation . Everyone is different . Some take longer than others
Some dogs never get below 300 . Some battle low numbers like you are seeing but most have a little of both

Like I suggested it's rare to see a dog have a hypo event . Maybe a handful since I have been on the forum .

Remember a dose reduction may need a week to maybe 2 for the bodies hormones to settle down . You have to ignore the highs during that time

Managing this disease is more of an art than a science i believe . It ebbs and flows . You can't wrap it up in a nice pretty package . Some get that but they are the few and far between . My Jesse took 6 months to get her stable and another to get to her regulation place and lived another 10 years after that . I never complained . It's the cards me and Jesse were dealt . It was a wonderful time we had together and I would do it all over again without hesitation.

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

I've lowered his dose to 8.5 units of Vetsulin vs 9 units and he's in the upper 300s to 400s, which his endocrinologist does not want to see...
I have an appointment with the homeopath doc in June, but I am at a total loss...
Donna

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

might as well go back up to 9 units

another option would be to inject the 9 units of vetinsulin and then feed more food. no more than 1/4 of a cup.

the other option is to change insulin

nph is known to be more stable. its more conentrated than vetinsulin. to start it reduce the dose. check for lows. if youve changed insulin before only means nph might work better this time.

whats his weight?
how much food is he eating?

smile

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

Any dose adjustment takes time for the hormones to settle . Dogs can handle higher sugar . There have been dogs on this forum that have never done better than what you posted .

Lows are the real danger . As long as your dog is not symptomatic of high sugar than your ok . Still look out for low sugar . Testing at normal low points can be helpful during a dose adjustment .

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

might as well go back up to 9 units

another option would be to inject the 9 units of vetinsulin and then feed more food. no more than 1/4 of a cup.

the other option is to change insulin

nph is known to be more stable. its more conentrated than vetinsulin. to start it reduce the dose. check for lows. if youve changed insulin before only means nph might work better this time.

whats his weight?
how much food is he eating?

smile

Max is 31 pounds and he's fed 3/4 cup of the Honest Kitchen, which is dehydrated base food, along with 1 cup of minced, boneless, skinless chicken breast broken up into two meals per day.

His Endocrinologist only wants me to change insulin as a last ditch effort. I have no idea why...

Oh, and since I'm here, I have another question! We never vacation or go anywhere due to the dogs, but I just found out my son is getting married at the end of August and we will have to find arrangements for two days. I realize they're better off here (especially since Max is blind), but does anyone have difficulties finding a care giver to monitor and give insulin to their dogs?
Donna

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

drop them off at my house if your vacationing in canada.

just looked at the feed chart for 31 lbs honest kitchen says up to 1 cup so yes i woulld stay at 9 units and add a Table spoon more of honest kitchen .keep adding the tablespoon till his curve is regulated. this way the insulin and food should meet up better and bring those low numbers up.

after testing if his curve numbers go high, reduce the food abit.

at one point people told me to up Riles insulin then i stopped and started adding and subtracting tweeking his food. he stayed at 5 1/2 units , 1/2 cup dry twice a day and regulated for the rest of his life

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

drop them off at my house if your vacationing in canada.

just looked at the feed chart for 31 lbs honest kitchen says up to 1 cup so yes i woulld stay at 9 units and add a Table spoon more of honest kitchen .keep adding the tablespoon till his curve is regulated. this way the insulin and food should meet up better and bring those low numbers up.

after testing if his curve numbers go high, reduce the food abit.

at one point people told me to up Riles insulin then i stopped and started adding and subtracting tweeking his food. he stayed at 5 1/2 units , 1/2 cup dry twice a day and regulated for the rest of his life

Haha! I wish! While all my grandparents immigrated to the US from Canada, we are all in NE and the wedding is in Boston. I 'm striking out on Rover as well...

Donna

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

I need to ask an extremely dumb question, but most important for Max, how do you define a finite dosage for your dog? I’ve gone between 8.5 units of vetsulin to 9 units and it’s dramatic on either end…
At 9 units, he goes low, but at 8.5, he goes high…
I understand high is better than low, but how high vs how low? We are talking a 200 point difference; 150 vs 350. I don’t think we have this under control at all like I thought we did…
Donna

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

I have done quarter units . Does the syringes you have half unit markings ? If so it's very simple to quarter dose . I have even accomplished an 8th of a unit by dosing on either side of the line

Over time Jesse did not need to be so exact but it took quite a bit of time to get their . Dose adjustments and food are basically all we have . Some have used exercise to lower blood sugar like a fast acting insulin as a way of control for their unique situation .

It is odd to see such a difference but it is what it is and that's what you got to deal with . If the low points are consistent you maybe able to give a carby snack . I had great success with a vita bone snack for Jesse which she had everyday for breakfast for a decade .

As far as a trip you got sometime to get someone you are comfortable with . I made a few trips leaving Jesse but they were short in nature

The place your dog is in us decent and safe for the most part . You manage your dog very well and should be proud of what you accomplished . Your really close . Diabeties can give head fakes so to speak like most medical diseases . It's surprising we do as well as we do with a couple shots a day with a complex system

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

adding and subtracting insulin doses is part of getting regulated.

adding food when they go low one time is a short term fix



did you try going back to 9 units and adding abit more food twice a day? feed 1 cup instead of the 2/3

this should prevent the low

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

So I decided to go back to the 8.5 dose (my syringes don’t even mark that – I eyeball it), and Max’s reading have gone from a low of 248 to a high of 576!!!
On 9 units its gone from a low of 45 to a high of 300…
I cannot really feed him more as he’s a Corgi, capable of gaining weight on air, and this isn’t good for his joints and back…
New suggestions?
Donna and Max

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

8.5 is going backwards, this is the same as april 9.

low of 248 on 9 units, why change thats perfect

anyway i cant see his curve or new data so

new suggestion

chicken raises blood sugar known fact, try topping off the Honest kitchen with something else fish maybe

if his bg rises after food and insulin take out some food

to find this manually test
1/2 hour after food , if the bg rises theres too much food
take out some food, wait a week do a curve to see the low.
number
insulin takes hour and half to meat up with the food so test at 2 hours after feeding and injecting. if its still high reduce the food.

or change insulin to nph novolin

or go to 9 add abit more food manage his weight later when hes regulated

or inject R rapid acting insulin to bring down the high

yours truly rovers friend

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

With those big swings you maybe seeing rebound even at 8.5

Now I only gave Jesse one meal a day and a reduced dose without a meal . It worked ok but it felt I needed to give her some kind of food with that dose of insulin .at first I gave her a spoonful of honey and that did help but I needed a bit more staying power so I used a medium type milkbone (vitabone ) I drizzled some honey on it to give a bit of an early punch to work with insulin . It accomplished what we wanted which is stable bloodsugar (no big drops or spikes )

The goal you are looking for is to stabilize bloodsugar which is what you are struggling with

The problem centers probably around sugar dropping hard and fast . Now you may not need to add quantities of calories to get results and that may not help anyway but if you target small very carby and highly digestible snacks at the time bloodsugar is dropping just to slow it down and hopefully prevent big spikes back up then you can get some stability and get to work on getting a routine that is stable

Like I said honey has value and was surprised that it worked so well . I would have thought it would have spiked her sugar but quite the opposite . My thought is insulin for many dogs is a bit to strong . My Jesse was on a tiny dose and I had similar problems as you so I had to quiet that strength of insulin and we did

It's not just about dosing at least for Jesse . Some just breezed through while others it's a bit more complex. Not sure why . The key still you do know insulin works . Maybe to good and yes a different insulin can work . Jesse was on nph