Angel Mochi December 2020

[Raysaint]

Re: Help with Mochi

Insulin doses, for humans and dogs, shouldn't be changed based on one number. That's one of the first rules of diabetes. Numbers over a period of time is your basis.
Diabetes is not like a machine with the same numbers every day. There will be a low now and then, but no need to panic. If I panicked every time my own sugar went low, I'd be changing doses a few times a week.
Riley's had 3 or 4 readings of 5.7 (100) in the last few days, I welcome that. My vet told me blood sugar like that, as low as 4.0, is normal for non diabetics.
If it's his morning fasting, I prepare his food as normal. If it's later in the day, maybe after his walk, I give him 3 or 4 small pieces of dehydrated sweet potato until supper.

[Lchow022]

Switching insulin

Hi everyone,

For the past couple of months Mochi’s blood sugar seemed to be pretty stable and consistent. Closer to the lower side but nothing crazy low. He has been on Humilin N since he was diagnosed. I heard from the vet tech that use to work at my vet that they ran out of vetsulin when Mochi was first diagnosed...so they had to give him what they had which was Humilin N.

I’ve been talking to two different vets because my regular vet only works twice a week now. The new vet that I’ve been talking to is wanting me to switch his insulin to vetsulin. She thinks that Humilin N isn’t working too well on Mochi since he hasn’t been very regulated for long. I wanted to give Humilin N another shot since my regular vet told me not to switch. Today was the first day with a crazy spike. His nadir was at 380 and a couple hours later it’s at 470..


Has anyone switched insulin’s to vetsulin and then had smooth sailing? I’m considering switching but I’m afraid to.

[amydunn19]

Re: Switching insulin

The problem is there are always going to be times when you get that high day or two because insulin is just a part of the equation. Switching will not change that. After all you have been through, I wouldn’t chance starting over because it could set Mochi back. There is something to be said for stable and consistent.

Remember vets sell vetsulin, so no wonder they push it.

[Raysaint]

Re: Switching insulin

amydunn is correct. You just said his numbers have been fairly good and stable.
Why would you want to change any of the components of your system?
With diabetes, if it ain't broke, don't mess with it.
Vets make money selling vetsulin, it gives them a bit of bias towards those products.
We all go thru hell trying to find the right combination of components that will regulate our dogs. Once you're on to something good, the body is letting you know that's what works. Changing just one thing means the body has to re-adapt to something new now, and who knows how that will happen.
Having a day or two here and there of abnormal numbers is completely normal with diabetes. No diabetic has good or consistent numbers day in and day out. It's not that scientific.

[farrwf]

Re: Switching insulin

Why fix it, if it's not broken?

[Daisydog10]

Re: Switching insulin

Vetsulin is a 70/30 and I couldn't get her regulated on it, so I went from Vetsulin to Novolin N.

If his glucose is fairly stable and he's just having a food spike, I wouldn't change.

[Lchow022]

Re: Switching insulin

Thank you all for your responses and input.

For some reason the new vet is stern on getting me switched to vetsulin. She said I’ll see very stable and consistent numbers. She also says that Mochi’s 4.5 units is too much for a 12lb dog. Mochi has been getting higher fasting spikes. But usually it comes back down to a good number after food and insulin. During the whole month of June he seemed to have very good stable numbers although on the lower side. He would always be between 75-200. Yesterday was a big random spike with high numbers all day between 330-480
I just took his blood sugar and it’s fortunately gone back down to 200. Hopefully it was just a one day scare thing.

So as long as the insulin works and keeps his blood sugar stable for most of the day I shouldn’t change it?

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Switching insulin

As long as he stays in a good range for most of the day, I would stay with your current insulin.

The normal starting dose for a 12.5lb dog is 2 units, twice a day. His dose is fine and not getting too much insulin. Even if he were getting a higher dose and had his current BG numbers, that would still be fine. Every dog is different and may require more or less insulin, depending on how they deal with food, insulin and everything else that goes on in their world

[jesse girl]

Re: Switching insulin

I can tell you from my experience unpredictable spikes in my mind is just rebound . We understand the theory behind it but thats all it is a theory and there maybe many responses but the simplest is the body at times is just not comfortable with the dose of insulin it receives and the mechanisms of the body to balance itself doesnt work as well as normal dogs and sugar is greatly elevated .

Another factor is i think meters can read higher in a high range so sometimes you dog could be high but not as high as we think We compared jesse to the vets analyzer early on with jesses meter she registered about 500 and the vet registered at 350 high but not crazy high .

I can tell you if i went to test jesse now i could not tell you what her number would be but usually she is in a range of 100 to 250 this is her reality . Early on i thought perfection is what we were looking for and if we did not accomplish that then jesse would suffer . Well that made me a bit crazy trying to control her body and everything she did . Come to find out she did not need to be perfect and i became ok with that . I still get frustrated from time to time but thats part of being human

[Raysaint]

Re: Switching insulin

Your new vet worries me. Your dog is doing pretty well and that's what should matter. You can't expect good numbers thru the whole 12 hour period, there is usually a spike somewhere, but if it levels out, that's how diabetes goes.

4.5 units is I think pretty normal for his weight. My dog gets 8.5 NPH and he's 25 lbs.

For your vet to make a definitive statement or veiled promise that you'll see stable/consistent numbers on vetsulin is just irresponsible. Many on here have switched from vetsulin as you know. And it doesn't matter what insulin you use, it's how it works on your dog.
If my vet was insisting on something without a real strong medical/science based case, I'd nip that real quick.
OMG, if you're seeing numbers in the 70-200 range a lot, most vets would cheer, including me.

[bichons9]

Re: Switching insulin

Hi everyone,

For the past couple of months Mochi’s blood sugar seemed to be pretty stable and consistent. Closer to the lower side but nothing crazy low. He has been on Humilin N since he was diagnosed. I heard from the vet tech that use to work at my vet that they ran out of vetsulin when Mochi was first diagnosed...so they had to give him what they had which was Humilin N.

I’ve been talking to two different vets because my regular vet only works twice a week now. The new vet that I’ve been talking to is wanting me to switch his insulin to vetsulin. She thinks that Humilin N isn’t working too well on Mochi since he hasn’t been very regulated for long. I wanted to give Humilin N another shot since my regular vet told me not to switch. Today was the first day with a crazy spike. His nadir was at 380 and a couple hours later it’s at 470..


Has anyone switched insulin’s to vetsulin and then had smooth sailing? I’m considering switching but I’m afraid to.

I was quite skeptical of VETSULIN Suzie started on NPH for 3+ months..changed to Lantus for 2 months and I relunctantly switched to VETSULIN which she has been on for 5 months now. And so, even though I spent much time expressing many concerns to Merck over its history and the need to "shake" the vial (when no other insulin requires this),i.e., worrying how the shaking affected the amorphous vs the crystalline portion of the insulin I believe that Vetsulin is working as it should ..Of course, there's always a few surprises.. I do not buy it from the DVM. I order it from ALLIVET ordering 2 at a time to save on the 24 hr cold shipping price. My plan was to switch to Levemir but after much research and consults with experts, I must admit that the Vetsulin overall has Suzie doing very well. However, I do not use the U-40 syringes since Suzie is only 10 lbs and converting to U-100 gives a more accurate dose. Because I test her BG "too much acc to everyone", I have had an unexplained BG rise a few weeks ago that required an increase to 3.6units (u-40) converted to 9 units (u-100)..We measure "on the line" or if BG too low, we measure "right above the line" and "below the line" if BG is is too high..Based on this, I do not believe the U-40 syringes provide enough slack for such a small dog. Good Luck..Furthermore, I am considering the continuous Libre system temporarily in conjunction with my AlphaTrak to simply note the pattern (trend) of BG levels (not for the accuracy which is for humans) since the sudden BG surprises still bother me a lot!! and the nadir changes back and forth between 10 and 12 am/pm ...You may view my real time spreadsheets if it is of any help.

[Lchow022]

muscle decreasing really fast.

Hi everyone,

I hope everyone is doing well. Mochi's diabetes have been pretty stable the pas few months but now I have been very focused on my old man chihuahua Krunky (he does not have diabetes but with other health issues now).

I have a question that's not regarding diabetes but I'm just hoping that maybe one of you will know the answer or if you guys have been through this.
My dog tore his crucial ligament almost 3 months ago. Due to his age(14) and heart condition it was best not to do surgery. He also has arthritis.... I started feeding him supplements and he is now on medication for his heart (pulmonary hypertension). Before he tore his ligament he was still able to walk for 3-4 blocks but slowed down a lot. After he tore it he was barely able to move..so we didn't really take him for walks the first month..I would carry him everyday while my dad walks Mochi and put him down on his favourite spots to smell and pee. I've also been taking him to the vet twice a week for laser therapy treatment.

Lately I've noticed his muscles are really draining away..his bones are starting to stick out more and he's struggling to walk. It seems like everything's going downhill since his acl tear. My vet today also said that he's losing muscle mass quite drastically and she's starting to worry it might be something else causing it. She mentioned cushings disease but I don't think he has it since the only symptom he really has is muscle weakness.
He hasn't lost that much weight either..he went from 10.4 lbs to 9.8 in the past 3months. We also decreased his food so he could lose a couple of pounds so it won't be so hard on his joints.

Has any of you ever experienced anything like this where your dog hurt their legs and lose of muscle happened quite fast? I'm starting to worry a lot now..

Thank you so much for reading this and I appreciate all the help and input i can get. <3

Lina

[LizE]

Re: muscle decreasing really fast.

Snickers tore her doggie acl about 9 years ago. Like you, we opted not to do surgery. She lost a lot of muscle mass in her injured leg, but not elsewhere.

We used a stroller to get her around while she was recovering. It was a very long process and we started making her swim to get her leg strengthened. I'm not sure how well she would have recovered if she couldn't have swam.

It's a pretty debilitating injury. I've talked to other dog owners who's dog had the surgery and some were given physical therapy for their dog's recovery and one dog had to run on a treadmill under water (this was at a vet school).

I can also tell you when my healthy, athletic son was in high school he broke his collar bone he lost a lot of muscle. After 6 weeks of rest we took him to a physical therapist to get him ready for his next sport. I was shocked at how week his injured side was after only a few weeks.

This is a very painful injury plus your dog is dealing with arthritis and old age. While there could be something else going on with your dog I would make sure that he is being treated for pain at the very least.

If at all possible can you try to swim him? Is he small enough for a bathtub or a laundry sink?

Can you get him to put any weight on the leg? I hold Snickers up so she is standing on her two back legs. Then I gently pull her to the side until she has to shift her weight (and her legs) to balance. Then I pull her to the other side. I only do it once to a side but I do it every time I pick her and set her down to eat or go to the bathroom so she does it several times a day. It helps her to use both legs instead of putting all her weight on one back leg when she stands.

Other advice would be to keep him off slippery surfaces or put traction socks or boots on him to help stabilize him. You might also want to try some gentle messages and stretches to help his circulation.

There are a lot of people out there who opt out of acl surgery for their dogs (there is no real empirical data that supports its efficacy) and if you search for conservative treatments you might find some more helpful information. Good Luck!

[jesse girl]

Re: muscle decreasing really fast.

Its really not that unusual for older dogs to loose muscle mass. from what i see it usually starts in the back end

My jesse being 14 has gotten weaker . As they get older it may accelerate

every dog has here own way of aging could be genetics maybe environmental maybe a combination of both

[Lchow022]

Re: muscle decreasing really fast.

Hi Liz and Snickers and Jesse girl,

Thanks for getting back to me. I actually tore almost all of my ligaments on my left knee a few years ago and lost all my muscles especially after surgery.

The problem with Krunky is he's losing muscle everywhere...and seems like arthritis is taking over..he's able to walk very slowly and some days 2blocks and somedays not even half..like today. It's starting to get really cold her in Vancouver and the colder it is the more he doesn't want to walk. I actually just did water therapy with him by filling up my bathtub and holding him up having him paddle 30seconds on and 30 seconds off. My vet said dont over do it with the water since he's got a heart condition and he's afraid of water.

I'm not sure what it could be that's causing him to lose muscle this fast...