New Member: Curve Advice

[rchen0126]

Hi, I want to say thank you for letting me join this forum. A lot of the information has been a big help in letting me understand glucose curves, normal levels, types of insulin, and curves. My dog has been diabetic for a few years now and for the most part at has been smooth sailing after the rough initial moment he was diagnosed with diabetes.


However, 2020-2021 along with covid has been really rough on my dog. For some reason we haven't been able to balance his glucose curve in awhile. He is an old dog about 15 years of age now. We tried changing his diet, gave him supplements to help with his awareness and limbs. Yesterday I felt we were coming close to a normal curve but today his blood sugar levels had a harsh drop in the morning. I'm assuming that my dog's food is not keeping up with the onset hours so we gave him kibble the past few days which helped but today it strangely didn't? I have a few assumptions about this.


First I'd like to provide my dog's diet and insulin.
https://myuntangledlife.com/homemade...diabetic-dogs/


There's a few modifications in that I used twice the amount of chicken for this batch. We added two pounds of chicken liver mixed in there. An extra pound of turkey. Initially we assumed that kibble was the reason his bsl has been inconsistent so we decided to boost the amount of protein provided in the home made recipe. I also pureed all the veggies before putting it in the stew pot. I find it helps him eat the veggies easier since his teeth arent very good anymore. Anyway we decided this week to give him back kibble because it appears the food takes too long to start on sugar.



As of now we give him 5tbs of this.



A tbs of ketona chicken kibble as of this week.


Supplements:

Primova 15-1 vitamin. Primova Advanced Hip and Joint Vitamin. Dr.Bill's Cognitive Powder.


U-100 NPH Insulin Novolin N


He is approximately 12 pounds


Right now I'll provide how's he been the past few daysP


9/15:


At roughly 9:30 am - 378


Gave 5.2 Injection


Checked at 7:30 pm- bsl : was 628


Night
9pm - High


Gave 5.5 Injection


7am bsl check: 338


9/16
Morning at 9 am:
351

Used 5.6 m/l


Mid day check --
1pm: 140


2pm: 120


3pm: 106


4pm: 144


7:30 pm - 542


9:00 pm - High


We decided to give him 6m/l


9/17


Morning at 9am- 315
Gave 6m/l


1:00 pm 328/329


1:30 pm 266


2:00 pm: 221


4:00 pm: 127


5:00 pm 183


9:00 pm 310 (It's been a long time since we got something balanced but yeah I didn't feel we were in the clear and I was right)


9/18


9:00 Am- 205 (So I'm going to assume my dog's insulin rate is much higher at night than the mornings but not sure)


We decided to give him 6 m/l anyway


I was worried and an hour later it was


9:30 am - 217 - 226


10:00 am - 166-126. I somewhat panicked and gave him some sugar because I didnt want him to rebound which happened a few days ago. I also gave him food



11:00 - 93-103


11:30 - 77


12:00 - 91


1 - 140's


Anyway that's the gist of it. I'd like to understand anybody here's input regarding trying to get a balanced curve. Either way thanks a lot for the existing info it has been a lot of help in letting me try to find a balance for my dog. Maybe I jumped too much in conclusion at 10 am reading? I don't know but I just found it strange that my dog's bsl was 350 in the fourth hour yesterday. I assumed the food was going to spike his blood sugar as he was eating when he was 205 - should I have waited and then took a reading to give him the injection?


Thank you for any feedback. As for my vet, I'll be honest most of my family comes from a different country with different ideologies. It's really hard to convince them to take my dog to the vet unless they clearly see it as an emergency. Even so, it'll take awhile before I get an appointment ready. I hope you understand this if not that's okay. At the very least, I would like some feedback on what I can do myself to help give my dog a curve that he can be comfortable with. He means the world to me so thanks again.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

hi and welcome

seems your post got missed, sorry

we do curves every 7 days in the beginning adjusting insulin according to the low number etc.

its not recommended to change the insulin amount every day as it takes 3 to 7 days for any changes to take affect. let everything settle for awhile.

i.d not make any changes, wait 7 days then do a 12 hour curve

[jesse girl]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

Big swings in sugar may point to a dose being to much for the amount of sugar supported by the body

More protein in the diet can help to cause the larger swings . Many and even professionals dont really understand the importance of carbs for diabetic dogs to work with the strength of insulin.

I think being an older dog you might just want to reduce the big swings as it doesnt feel good I belive . Even if your at higher levels maybe 200s and 300s is just fine

[rchen0126]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

Thanks for the reply. It's alright! This forum has so many insightful conversations/discussions and info that I feel much more relaxed thanks to it. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get my dog's blood sugar to stabilize as we once did but I feel I am getting closer now than I have before. After doing more research and using this forum as I guide. I think I have a better understanding of what to do.

I switched from home made to completely canned and I dropped ketona because I find that it either spikes his blood sugar too much or the fact there's too little carbs in that kibble.

I've currently switched to wellness core canned turkey liver and chicken completely. I notice he does better with 8 tbsp of food per meal than anything lower. His ideal weight according to the vet awhile back should be 12-13 pounds.



I've used dogfoodadvisor before is there any type of food you would recommend that has a good balance of carb, fat and protein?



The last thing that worked well for my dog is Hill's perfect weight when he was on 4 units of insulin. But I found that he wasn't gaining enough weight and it was too expensive/hard to come by. He also throws up occasionally from the food. It had about 40 percent carbs in there?



Maybe something with 30 percent carbs, but at least the food is at 20 percent carb when ketona was only at 4 percent. If this doesn't turn out well I might go with nulo which has similar carb ratios to Hill's



Again thanks for the replies. I am afraid of seeing my dog at high but it does beat instability/unpredictability. I will stick to a single dosage for a week then see how the curve goes from there.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

hi

your checking all the boxes, good job

every dog is different. all i did was try different foods, adjusted riles insulin according to the lowest number in his curve

feeding a good quality low fat dog food adjusting the amount fed according to his weight will meet up better to the insulin

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

theres always the option of using fast acting "R" insulin.

[rchen0126]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

Thank you for the prompt reply! Since my dog is 12 pounds do you think it would be safe to start him at 3.5? My mind keeps saying 4 but I'm so afraid of seeing his blood sugar drop that I might end up switching his food that includes more carbs. I find that fiber hasn't been doing all that great for him personally. If you have any food recommendations that has an okay amount of carbs with protein/fats I would gladly accept those because I don't want him to lose any weight.


I was thinking of using "R" for him but does walmart distribute that? So far doing a curve with N has made me very nervous over the 12 hours and I keep burning through those sticks.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

you can add a carb to his dog food.

a starting dose for 12 lbs is .25 x 12=3.

its good to do a curve first

[rchen0126]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

I'll think about adding carbs later I suppose. The only thing I have readily available is white rice. Even then I'm uncertain how much white rice he would need. Would 1tablespoon be enough? I'm uncertain of giving him carbs now because his blood sugar is recently back to high.



Yeah thankfully I learned 3 is a good starting point for my dog so I will start that tomorrow. The reason I keep concluding to 3.5 to 4 is that I found 3 based on glucose curves that i did a few days ago to be inadequate in getting him out of high. Though I haven't really kept it to only sticking to 3 for awhile. I'm just kind of scared that he'll get weaker in a week. Do dogs at least absorb some nutrients when their blood sugar is still high with insulin injections?

[jesse girl]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

I don't think my Jesse had any problems with elevated sugar (:200s and 300s ) as long as she was receiving injected insulin . I fed my Jesse a homemade diet so I can't comment on what type of commercial diet but for Jesse I kept it simple and fairly balanced but it was a work in progress as she started out on a raw high meat protein diet which was not good for her so moved to a more balanced approach and found Jesse's balance for her digestive needs and work with injected insulin . Now you also want a food that your dog will eat and hopefully enjoy . My Jesse ate what I made for her the 11;years being diabetic and maybe missed a handful of meals to digestive issues

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

it would be helpful to post here the latest curve Before you make any changes in food or insulin.

dropping back when he is high might not be the best approach.

[rchen0126]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

I see that makes sense. my dog is sitting around high more often than I would like. It does drop him at least around the 500s during peak last time I used three... though I kept changing how much insulin I've injected him and I've decided I need to stop that and learn to have some patience.


Home made used to work really well for Odie but now it doesn't really anymore. He does enjoy the more protein focused diets though since there was a time he refused to eat anymore and we did have a few spare can of hill's for him. With Hill's he worked really well around 4- 3.5 units of insulin.



I've ordered some kibble with grains in there. So hopefully those will help stave off the drops he gets if I do increase his insulin dosage over time to around better levels.


This was my latest curve. I didn't have many strips around and was busy:


6:00 am 725


I used 5 m/l injection with Novolin N


8:00 am - 577


600 am 209 (I became really uncomfortable with seeing 200 at this point of time)


I used 2 m/l injection with novolin N at 6:00 pm


7:00 pm - 344


8:00 pm - 401


6:00 pm High

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

yes its very important to wait 7 days when u make any changes. you cant change Odies insulin amount everyday. even foid changes u need to wait.

after 7 days do a curve, Then make changes according to the lowest number.

keep testing.

post any curves here please.

please dont make any changes until we look at the curve or take the curve to the vets office.

[rchen0126]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

I posted my latest curve in the edit. Hope it helps.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New Member: Curve Advice

all info helps thanks.

you injected 5 units at 6am then 2 units at 6pm

please stop changing the insulin! its not helping him.

if he did well on 4 units stick with 4 units twice a day after food. wait 7 days no changes at all keep insulin at 4.

keep testing. post here his numbers in 3 days