Pugsley became an angel...

[Aneng]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

I've never heard of rebound until you mentioned it. His appetite went crazy after being diagnosed - though it's hard to be sure as we always used to just feed him whenever he was hungry and all of a sudden, he's on two meals a day, 12h apart, so he's going crazy for food as he's not used to going so long without a meal.

The bottom graph is today - and only half the day at that. The only thing that has changed is that my wife has been feeding him as I'm in bed with Norovirus and we usually give him 4.4 oz of wet dog food with 8% carb content, 1.4 oz of chicken breast and 1 oz of dry kibble per meal. The dry kibble is Royal Canin Weight Management and the wet food was Royal Canin Weight Management Wet, but when we ran out of that, I switched to this other stuff that was in the supermarket and seemed to have low carbs. Today, we ran out of chicken, so his breakfast contained very little chicken at all and his evening meal, none. The change of the wet food came about four days ago, but the exclusion of chicken only happened today.

I'm wondering if it could be the chicken ? I can't see how, but the very limited data so far does point at that.

[jesse girl]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

High protein diets seem to be correlated to rebound . My theory is the slow digestion of it allows little blood sugar to work with the strength of injected insulin . If insulin isn't fed the body may do it dumping sugar into the system and overwhelm injected insulin . In a non diabetic dog insulin and blood sugar work together in a balanced system . Injected insulin is time released and far different than the natural system . Now if you can duplicate what you did for that meal and repeat it for a week and test to see how it goes . You might have got lucky . I did on many occasions solving my Jesse's regulation difficulties .Don't worry if you get some off days . If you can get 2 decent curves you might be on the right track

[Aneng]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

I'm not sure what's going on to be honest. I read up on rebound and the Dawn effect and as you pointed out, it looks very much like rebound so far. The advice I read was to reduce the insulin by 25%, so this morning, (5.30am!) I gave him just 5 units with his breakfast. His glucose was climbing from about 1am to over 500 just after his breakfast but I can't work out why.

After the good curve from the 3rd I posted yesterday, things went haywire just after... You can see that on the 3rd about 1:08pm he dipped below 100, which I'm guessing triggered a rebound ? That peaked about 6pm and would have come down as a result of the insulin he had with his dinner around then I guess.

Today, I have been very careful to not let him dip below 100, erring on the side of caution, and gave him a small snack about 12:30 as his curve looked like it might hit close to 100 without it. However, despite him not going below 100 from his evening meal yesterday onwards, his glucose climbed steadily through the night again....

We're also back to him demanding food 11hrs after his previous meal, so each mealtime is getting 1hr earlier !

One last thing - how much and how fast does food have an effect on glucose ? I'm struggling to believe that the tiny snack he had at 12:30 would be responsible for the massive spike that started a couple of hours later.

Any ideas ?

Many thanks to you for helping.... I'd be lost without you !

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

you.ll get higher and lower number readings with the sensor. its good to recheck any numbers in question with a back up handheld glucose meter.

yes adding in chicken to his food as you.ve found out raises blood sugar.

food starts to effect blood sugar about half hour after feeding. so too much food or protein will raise bg.

try sticking to one food for 7 days . he,s been on the new food for 4 days so wait 6 days cause yoy just took out the chicken.

hope this food works better with the insulin.

your doing a great job with him. he knows cause hes not barking for food alot which means hes feeling better. when he.s regulated he,ll stop barking.

[Aneng]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

It's 00:38 am here now and his glucose has started rising again from the low of 144 to 221 in the past hour. I'm determined to stop his glucose shooting up past 500 in the next few hours like it's been doing for weeks. I'm seriously thinking of giving him a shot of 1 unit of insulin (without food). Is that dangerous?

[Aneng]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

I decided to give him half of his breakfast with half of his insulin for that meal. It's about 4h early compared to recent breakfasts so I pray I've done the right thing.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

why would you change things

why feed half of his breakfast?

why feeding 4 hours early?

is he sick?

no dont give extra insulin without a 7 day curve

[Aneng]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

Because every night his glucose has gone over 500 and I'm getting worried that it's causing him damage. I saw his curve starting to climb rapidly again for no obvious reason and thought "it's going to hit over 500 again". I wanted to get it down and didn't want to risk giving him insulin without food so I opted for half-food, half-insulin, albeit four hours early. His diabetes is clearly not under control and I'm just trying to do what I can.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

please stick to a routine of feeding and insulin every 12 hours! very important.

please dont rely entirely on the sensor, double check with the handheld!

please dont chase numbers.

stick to one food, same everything for 7 days do a curve or go to the vet get one done

[jesse girl]

Re: Check out these curves ! (glucose - not great)

My Jesse had big swings in sugar and what I theorized is she could only accept so much insulin if I went over that she would spike up . You can't expect change to happen on demand . If your dog is rebounding because of to much insulin and if it's gone on for sometime it's going to take time for the body to calm down and not react . Finding that right combination can be challenging .

I actually switched Jesse to one meal a day to remove the food equation for half the day in the hopes to see if food was responsible for spikes .the interesting thing it improved her blood sugar without food and also improved her period of meal and insulin . So an experiment turned into a long term routine with one meal . The only change was giving her a dog biscuit snack with that no meal dose which helped to improve her blood sugar stability .

The good thing Is you know insulin works . That's half the battle . Now it's just flattening out the curve and reduce those big swings . As mo said it was takes time and a repeatable routine of 5 to 7 days and sometimes up to 2 weeks to get an answer .Like I said you can't expect things to change on demand

Managing my Jesse's diabetes was more of an art and feel and less about science . In the end looking back it all makes sense now but when we were in the trenches I just wanted to pull my hear out

How is your dog doing physically ?

[Aneng]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - now vomiting :-(

Well, it seems I have bigger problems than his diabetes now. Since I last posted, we've struggled to keep his blood glucose under control. I've tried all sorts, food changes, insulin changes... nothing seems to work very well.

The past few days he's lost his appetite and started vomiting up any water he drinks. We took him to the vet who did some blood tests and told us that one of his liver readings which are normally 30-50 are 15,000 !!! The vet had him in today to do a liver function test and some tests for pancreatitis. We'll have to wait a day or two for those results.

I've been in pieces - I'm expecting him to not make it through this. I recently started a new job and ended up having to leave early because I started crying.... not ideal for a 57 year old man.

He's my baby. We have no human children and he's the only dog I've ever had, so naturally he's become like my own child.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

Aw... I'm so sorry.

I understand... we just lost our dog (not diabetic) to cancer after he lost the use of his back end from a mass impinging on the spinal cord. Developed quickly and went downhill very fast. He was nearly 15 but still... we had really hoped to have him with us longer.

I hope that your sweet pup can pull through this - am beaming good wishes to you both and sending you a virtual hug. Fingers crossed it can be treated and he can recover.

Natalie

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

hoping for a good outcome for Pugsley.

its hard waiting for results.

you.ll be okay, stay strong for Pugsley

[jesse girl]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

It sounds like pancreatitis . That was part of my Jesse's original diagnosis with diabeties and DKA

The only thing that worked for my Jesse's was one meal a day with a full dose of insulin and milk bone snack with a reduce dose which was about a third of the full dose . Why it worked I felt is less time digesting food which helped with blood sugar and digestive issues like pancreatitis.

[Aneng]

Re: Newly diabetic pug - HELP!

Well, it was pancreatitis and secondary bile duct obstruction. After I posted last, he started to go jaundiced. He had to go to a hospital 112 miles away and stay for a week. He's back home now. The jaundice and vomiting has gone - his liver enzymes are still very high though. He's lost a lot of weight - down from 20 pounds to about 15. He is licking air a lot more than he used to, and - he is ravenously hungry all the time. It's ridiculous... he is constantly fighting to get to the food cupboard and I have to confess I've given in to him twice today as I can't cope with the endless barking. I know that's not good for a dog recovering from pancreatitis but I just can't cope. I don't know what else to do.

As nobody will insure him, the bill came out of our savings - £4,500 (US$ 6000 / 7500 CDN).

I have spent the entire day today trying to get him to settle - long walks to wear him out.... he seems to have endless energy and unbounded determination to bark constantly for food every minute he's awake.

It seems like the best feeding regime for his health is the complete opposite end of what he continually demands.

I'm vaping to excess, drinking too much and the stress is going to put me in my grave if I'm not careful.

I love him dearly but this is what I imagine it must be like having a hyperactive disabled child.

What can I do ???? I just want him to be well, and not push me to the brink every day with his antics.