Border collie Jack passed away on February 28, 2022

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack the project!

Shhhhh, Natalie is catching up on her sleep.

On a more serious note, it makes you wonder how this peeing can affect the kidneys and what is potentially being flushed out of his system.

Hope things get better for both of you Natalie

Louise

[debbie]

Re: Jack the project!

Hope you and Jack are doing better.

[pgcor]

Re: Jack the project!

Natalie - could you use one of those male wraps for Jack on the days he takes the medication? We use one for Pip. Just on those days and maybe you could sleep?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

I am not sure whether his pain level is better or not. He seems subdued on the meds. On days off, like today... sometimes I think about the same as with Metacam, sometimes I think better, sometimes I think worse. So I just don't know the answer to that question.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

This week I plan to give the methyl-pred when Jeff gets up to get ready for work at 5 a.m. That way, when the need to go often hits, it should be in the middle of the afternoon and could be mostly over with by bed time.

Natalie

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Jack the project!

This week I plan to give the methyl-pred when Jeff gets up to get ready for work at 5 a.m. That way, when the need to go often hits, it should be in the middle of the afternoon and could be mostly over with by bed time.

Natalie

Good plan Natalie,

Changing the schedule slightly may be the answer.
Poor wee Jack he is having a time of it too.

Hope it settles down Natalie, so you can get back to some normality.

Hugs

Margaret

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack the project!

Natalie,

I know you are extremely busy lately but when you have minute, let us know how Jack is doing on the amended dosage and schedule and most of all, if you are finally able to get some decent sleep.

Louise

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

The change in timing worked great for sleep. He did most of his frequent urinating in the early afternoon and by bed time he was pretty much back to normal. Since he tends not to wake up until after he's leaked when he's urinating a lot, I did set an alarm for 2am and took him out just to make sure he didn't have any problems.

Wish I knew what to say about how the prednisone has or hasn't worked. My sense is that it hasn't provided any more relief than we were getting with Metacam and he just hasn't been himself on the prednisone - he's subdued and just generally seems a bit depressed relative to how he was before. Plus his signals for what he wants seem kind of screwed up. He's just "off."

There's definitely no obvious stellar improvement in his mobility or his exercise tolerance. But it is hard to tease out whether he's now in pain and that's why he's so subdued or if it's something else...

He has one more week of every-other-day methyl-prednisolone dosing and then perhaps we will be able to determine whether it's being on this med that's causing his being off or if it is unrelated to it.

Short answer: I'm confused!

Natalie

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Jack the project!

The change in timing worked great for sleep. He did most of his frequent urinating in the early afternoon and by bed time he was pretty much back to normal. Since he tends not to wake up until after he's leaked when he's urinating a lot, I did set an alarm for 2am and took him out just to make sure he didn't have any problems.

Wish I knew what to say about how the prednisone has or hasn't worked. My sense is that it hasn't provided any more relief than we were getting with Metacam and he just hasn't been himself on the prednisone - he's subdued and just generally seems a bit depressed relative to how he was before. Plus his signals for what he wants seem kind of screwed up. He's just "off."

There's definitely no obvious stellar improvement in his mobility or his exercise tolerance. But it is hard to tease out whether he's now in pain and that's why he's so subdued or if it's something else...




He has one more week of every-other-day methyl-prednisolone dosing and then perhaps we will be able to determine whether it's being on this med that's causing his being off or if it is unrelated to it.

Short answer: I'm confused!

Natalie

Natalie,

Short answer I think you will find it is the methyl-prednisolone that is making Jack a bit off and subdued, you will find once he is off this drug he will be more like himself.

I know if Lucy has pain Natalie she usually pants...... this is how I know when she has pain.

He is only going to have the med every alternate day next week.......this may help Natalie.

You will be able to work it out soon if it is the med and indeed if it has helped him.

You said you thought it has not given anymore relief than Metacalm.

Keep us posted Natalie.

Hugs

Marg

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

He has seemed to be pretty stiff and sore today so I don't believe there has been any long-term effect of this dose of steroids. He was happier and in no more pain when he was on Metacam.

So I'm going to talk to the neurologist on Monday to see if we can quit the steroids now rather than do another week of the every-other-day dose. He was only on the high dose for 6 days and I've read that you don't have to taper them off if they are on for a week or less. I'd like to get him back on Metacam and off the steroids as he also just is not himself while taking them.

Natalie

[buddingartist]

Re: Jack the project!

How's our boy Jack doing lately? Still on pred or back to metacam?

Louise

[jesse girl]

Re: Jack the project!

Hi natalie me and my mom have been using a chinese homeopathic liquid for arthitis and the results have been amazing allot of relief from the pain and my mom said the curling of the fingers and toes has improved with the application now for dogs i have no idea it has a stroung smell at the beginning like vicks vapor rub it is called zheng gu shui you can check the reviews on amazon they seem to be wright on

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jack the project!

I took him off of the pred - the last dose of that was Saturday, January 29.

The neurologist wanted three days between the last pred and restarting the Metacam. So I started the Metacam again on Wednesday evening.

My sense is that the Pred didn't provide much more - maybe the same amount or slightly more - relief than the Metacam, which he tolerates well.

Given his reaction to the prednisone, even if it did work, it's impossible for him to take it for any length of time and if there was any relief, it was not lasting. He's already back to limping just two weeks after stopping the daily prednisone. So the pred option is out.

Metacam for now... think about the MRI.

My gut feeling is that the discs are compressing the spinal cord and we probably should do the MRI. It's a matter of deciding how much his current situation, with relief from Metacam or some other analgesic, is interfering with his comfort and life and whether it's problematic enough to risk anesthesia and potentially surgery. Since he's not paralyzed or in screaming pain, we can take some time to think about it.

I do want to get a new blood panel done to revisit the thyroid question and to check and make sure the pred didn't have any adverse effects on him. He has seemed "off" to me ever since taking it. But I promised the neurologist to avoid stressing him until his own adrenal glands should be fully back to providing him with cortisol. And he stressed big time at the last blood draw. So no blood panel for a week or two and we will just observe and see how he seems to be doing once the Metacam gets fully back on board.

Thanks Jesse Girl for the name of the herb you are using. I know when we did acupuncture that the acupuncture vet had an analgesic she wanted to try him on. There was some question about its potential interaction with his Prozac and I didn't get an answer on that before we went back to the neurologist and quit doing the acupuncture, which definitely wasn't helping him at that point.

He has done well on Metacam and Chris took it daily for four years also with good results. So I have some experience giving it long-term for chonic pain mgmt. But Jack is only 3 years old and I don't know about trying to keep him on it for the rest of his life. That's why we have to consider the MRI to see if surgery might be able to "fix" it. But also be sure the surgery won't cause problems or pain.

Natalie

[jesse girl]

Re: Jack the project!

well Natalie you have done so much for others it would be nice if we could do something for you even with the problems you been having with jack you find time to help others on this site I know its not easy

[HarrysMom]

Re: Jack the project!

Natalie,
A friend of mine is pathologist married to an orthopedic surgeon, and she is also an incredible pet parent. For a while, she has been recommending Yucca Intensive for Harry, but I have not used it given Harry's Cushing's (Yucca contains plant steroids). She swears that her dog's spinal issues have resolved after being on this.
She also gives her dog Curcumin - another great natural anti-inflammatory apparently. These recommendations came from her husband - so I would think there must be some scientific validity. My friend is also one of those pet parents who scour the scientific literature to get the info. I was thinking about starting Harry on Curcumin as well.

Yunhee