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  #1  
Old 01-16-2022, 12:12 PM
Fin2010 Fin2010 is offline
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Red face Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

Hi Everyone, Iím brandnew here with my 11 year old pug Finley just having been diagnosed on 1/3/2022.He was put on Vetsulin twice a day (presently at 7 IU) immediately as his BG was well over 500 (no ketones).

Iíve spent the last two weeks educating myself on diabetes and I understand it takes a while, but I canít find much information on the hindleg weakness, the shortness of breath/cough/apnea type episodes, and the overall mopey disposition he currently displays. Heís responding well to the Vetsulin in that his number are down and range from 320 (right before insulin) to 145 (insulin peak) during a 24 hr period (for the last 2 days). We are still fine tuning and he wears a Libre.

But I donít see much difference with his lethargy, his hindlegs, I believe he already lost most his eyesight (in treatment for eye issues related to diabetes) nor his breathing. I ran all possible diagnostics available to us on 1/3/22 when he was diagnosed. Lungs look fine, legs are atrophied (but heís already in rehab for that since atrophy began about 3 months ago and we falsely attributed it to his age). We did ultrasound, X-rays, and aside from an UTI (also being treated), he is fine. Btw, in Oct 2021 we did a full CBC and no diabetesÖbut I started seeing off signs as early as midóNovember.

How long does the hindleg weakness last? He sways, stumbles and falls a few times a day, tho I do believe it got a little better. His vet said neuropathy mainly happens in cats, but heís had other cat side effects from illnesses and meds before and I saw here that there are other dogs struggling with this.

Heís also very slow now and seems confused half the time. Seems mopey and not interested in anything but food after about 7 am. Itís like he crashes mentally and physically for the rest of the day even tho his BG is decent. Also, I check daily for ketones ó none.

His breathing is still strange but his lungs are fine. The wet cough sounds like heís trying to cough up phlegm. His vet thinks because he has a currently enlarged liver, it may be pressing on his diaphragm but it freaks me out to watch him. The episodes are short but some days are frequent. No heart disease, saw a cardio in June.

Does anyone have any input on the time frame of the neuropathy, the mental fog, the cough/breathing? I would so appreciate it. Just for my own peace of mind Ö.
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  #2  
Old 01-16-2022, 01:12 PM
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Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

hi and welcome

sorry i posted earlier but it didnt get posted anyway

please post his weight.

back leg neuropathy does go away closer to being regulated. vit b12 helps

breathing problems, being tired are smtoms of ketoacidosis. are you keeping intouch with your vet and doing weekly curves.?

it would be helpful to use a portable humidifier to help with the dry heat if you have this.

Lethargy is one of the symptoms of uncontrolled/poorly controlled canine or feline diabetes. Untreated or not adequately treated, the diabetic's tissues are unable to use glucose, amino acids and fatty acids properly[1]. It normally resolves quickly after starting insulin therapy.

think you ll see the blood sugar normalizing once the UTI is finished also the antibiotics. the infection is raising his blood sugar .

i.m assuming the 7 units to start is a higher dose because of the infection ,to be careful of a bg drop when the antibiotics are stopped. we need his weight please.
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Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017

Last edited by Riliey and Mo; 01-16-2022 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:34 PM
Fin2010 Fin2010 is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

He’s 22 lbs. His ideal weight is 20.5 lbs.

I am in contact with his vet daily - we are about 12 days into treatment. She gets all the information from the Libre sent directly to her. I’ve just not gotten good feedback on the lethargy/weakness stuff.

As for ketoacidosis, I check ketones daily and there were none in the original tests at the vets and at his specialists. He has IBD and so he’s on food for that … he’s a pretty complicated guy with 4 bouts of pancreatitis last year, then IBD, and previously also diagnosed with late onset idiopathic epilepsy.

He’s on Tylosin and Budesonide for the IBD. Gabapentin, Potassium Bromide, Topamax for Refractory Epilepsy (took 2 years to get controlled).

PS: he has an appointment this Tuesday for blood recheck.
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:44 PM
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Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

Methylcobalamin is found to be very effective in treating dogs with diabetic neuropathy. Although not common in dogs, this condition can occur with diabeties and is very painful and debilitating. Due to consistently elevated blood sugar levels in the dog's body, nerves become damaged and limbs can become weak and even numb.

this methyl vit b ask you vet about it works good to help restore use in back legs
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Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:51 PM
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Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

the libres have proven to be helpful but arent as accurate as using a handheld meter and doing home curves. the high bg readings are false as the low readings

getting a good glucose meter and home testing will make you more incontrol of Finley,s diabetes.

Finley could also still be producing insulin. monitoring him closly at first.
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Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:01 PM
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Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

keep your eye out if his breathing gets worse, he might need to change insulins. novolin nph is good.

allergic rection to Vetinsulin pork or pork products

hives, swelling lips and tongue, breathing problems
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Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017

Last edited by Riliey and Mo; 01-16-2022 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:34 PM
Fin2010 Fin2010 is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riliey and Mo View Post
Methylcobalamin is found to be very effective in treating dogs with diabetic neuropathy. Although not common in dogs, this condition can occur with diabeties and is very painful and debilitating. Due to consistently elevated blood sugar levels in the dog's body, nerves become damaged and limbs can become weak and even numb.

this methyl vit b ask you vet about it works good to help restore use in back legs
Actually, thanks to you guys on here I made a note of it and emailed my vet a couple days ago, just waiting to hear back if thereís any reason Fin cannot get those shots. If thereís none, Iíll definitely want to get him started. If the neuropathy is painful like you say, maybe the moping and general absentmindedness and confusion comes from that. Thank you for the response.
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:45 PM
Fin2010 Fin2010 is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riliey and Mo View Post
it would be helpful to use a portable humidifier to help with the dry heat if you have this.

think you ll see the blood sugar normalizing once the UTI is finished also the antibiotics. the infection is raising his blood sugar .

i.m assuming the 7 units to start is a higher dose because of the infection ,to be careful of a bg drop when the antibiotics are stopped. we need his weight please.
We originally started him on 2 units, then 3, 4, 5, 6 and saw nothing until 6. I didnít know this about the Libre and will ask about handheld meters and curves Ö we got a great specialist and she may have wanted to give him a break on needle pricks because he had so many hospitalization with the pancreatitis and IBD last year.

I do have a humidifier running at night. I read about that and it actually helps. I notice a difference when I forget to turn it on.

I also didnít know about the antibiotics raising BG Ö heís got a couple pretty resistant bacteria strains and we are treating with two weeks of Baytril. Iíll make sure Iíll ask about that too since I have about 5 days of Baytril left.

Iíve been on him like a hawk Ö I actually took off 2 weeks from work just so I can watch him and make sure heís safe with the insulin and BG changes. As for bis 22 lbs, heís on a very monitored and specific diet and has been for a while. Because of his epilepsy, heís been on medication that also leads to weight gain so itís not been easy keeping his weight down. I know we hve to be careful losing weight and giving insulin. So i am keeping that in mind as well. Heís definitely a special needs boy.
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Old 01-19-2022, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

Its not unusual for a newly diagnosed dog to be lethargic . Not sure why but injected insulin probably is a bit hard on a dog and the body has to adapt

If a dog is in the mid 300s and then drops to the mid 100s and climb back to the mid 300s probably doesn't feel very good .

As Mo suggested the methyl B-12 seems to have some benefits from what we have seen on the forum but your dog is older so it not unusual to see this in a non diabetic dog but the diabetes maybe exacerbating the situation .Either way improvement can be slow but most seem to get better . May not be as it was

Stable regulation usually will help . For me I like to see swings in sugar less than 200 from high to low and low to high .

Also the 7 units maybe a bit hard on your pup . my jesse could never take more than 3 units at a time which led to 3 shots a day . My theory is the insulin never fully agreed with her but who knows for sure

Remember vets can only do so much and you have to do most of the work as your pup is with you 99 percent of the time . You are more aware of how your dog feels

Your off to a good start showing insulin is impacting higher sugar which is good .
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021
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Old 01-19-2022, 04:26 PM
Fin2010 Fin2010 is offline
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Default Re: Finley, the pug Ö.Newbie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse girl View Post

If a dog is in the mid 300s and then drops to the mid 100s and climb back to the mid 300s probably doesn't feel very good .

Stable regulation usually will help . For me I like to see swings in sugar less than 200 from high to low and low to high .

Also the 7 units maybe a bit hard on your pup .
Thank you so much for the reply. We were able to mellow out his curve quite a bit (keep it between 150 and 300) and we think heís somewhere around 6.5. When we do 7 he drops low (like he did today by going to 89 suddenly before I gave him 1/2 a meal). We are going to do a few days of just 6.5 but May end up with 6.5 am and 7.0 pm. That seems to be his number. Actually my vet was surprised how well he was doing after only 2 weeks.

We started B12 shots but I now see regular B12 isnít the same as methyl B12. I specifically asked if he was getting Methyl and was told yesÖ Iím not so sure tho.

He was also on Baytril for a nasty UTI and part of me thinks he was having additional problem from the Baytril. When he was 3 years old he reacted to Baytril and we immediately stopped but this time they thought they would give it another shot because of the bacteria strains in his urine. 😬 We shall see.
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