Newbie needing help

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

So I've been giving Max B12 with inartistic factor and he's not dropping sugar as early as he did before... Fingers crossed!
Donna

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

great hope you continue to see positive results

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

This was Max's curve from today:
Wednesday
5:30
Unknown
Breakfast and Insulin
8:00
333
Resting
10:30
174
Resting
3:30
225
After a ride
5:30
Unknown
Dinner and Insulin
6:00
215
Resting

A heck of a lot better than the 34 drop a couple of hours after insulin!

Donna

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

yes it is Good Job

you Rock Max!

regulation is under 250 for the better part of the day.

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

So I have a vet appointment on Thursday. Getting a vet appointment these days is like winning the lottery and it takes at least a month… I’m going to be asking some questions on why Max is all over the place, still! He’s gotten from some really high places to some really low places without being symptomatic… I’ve read him as low as 34, which my understanding is he should be dead, but acts fine?? A friend of mine is a critical care ICU nurse and said they give patients a glass of milk when they are asymptomatic, but have low numbers. I know Max is very tolerant of milk products, so I’m going to ask if I could do that.
Last week I did a curve most of the week to prove why I’m so concerned (didn’t want to do it this week with daylight savings time) as I knew that would throw it off…He ranged from 74 to 340 (at the same times) at any given day during my curves.
Any other questions I should ask? Vet appointments are so hard to come by these days… I don’t know when I’ll get another!
Donna and Max, who is really sick of bleeding!

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

I have never heard of milk to give for low blood sugar

We in the k9 diabetes world give a form of liquid sugar like Karo . honey . Rubbing on the inner gums gets it quickly into the bloodstream

I use to give my jesse a spoonful of honey when she was low

Big swings in sugar is an imbalance with injected insulin and the body . That could be from a dose being to much , type of food not working well or a medical issue

You may want to take your meter and compare with their meter . A blood analyser is best if they have one . you would like to do multiple tests if possible

checking for things like a thyroid issue , cushings if you see symptoms . We even had dogs with addison's which can lead to low sugar to name just a few medical conditions that can affect blood sugar

good luck with the visit but dont expect to much

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

So I went to my vet appointment today and it was as bad as I expected it to be… I honestly think I know more about diabetes than she did… She read the curves, then asked me what I fed. I told her Acana Heritage meat and she immediately brought out a spreadsheet (from Hills Science Diet I might add) that showed Acana to be the worst in the ongoing battle about cardiac disease in grain free diets… I’ve read the published articles about this and I know it’s from too much pea protein, which Acana doesn’t have much of. But she persisted. I also told her I do supplement with Taurine, which she had not heard of??? This is where the whole grain-free debacle stated from??? WHF? Anyway, she was more interested in trying to find something wrong with his heart (which she couldn’t) than helping him with his diabetes…
When I asked about a fast acting insulin, she also had no idea what that was???
She insisted if I put him on Hills W/D, his problems would go away, and if they didn’t, he’d need to see an internal medicine specialist at the school she recently graduated from… And that gives me what hope?
I bought a bag of the food she recommended and left there very disappointed and about $300 poorer. We’re on our own now….
Donna and Max

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

Forgot to mention, she also suggested giving injections IM vs. SubQ - thoughts on that?
Donna

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

Same thing happened to me . When the vet came out with the medical journal where blood sugar needed to be which stated it need to be normal I new I wasn't going to get what was needed to help Jesse . They gave me hills also and I fed her one can and decided to go in a different direction which was a raw diet which was my first mistake . Following fad diets was not the way to go . Now Hills does work for many dogs and the reason it is loaded with carbs and fillers that seems to work with the strength of injected insulin . This is why a balanced diet is appropriate for diabetic dogs . I continued to go with the homemade diet program which took sometime to find the correct combination of food to give Jesse good steady blood sugar . I think I got lucky on most of it but for me it was more about common sense than science . I am thankful it work as she was difficult to regulate . Now the Hills may have worked well at the start and would work great but I did not think of this food as very nutritious and she might get board with it and then what do I do always looking down the road for upcoming problems

So the Vet may not be wrong on the diet but its all that they know that does have positive results . They are not dieticians . They dont have time to dig into the particular's

Now grain free foods in general dont work all that well with injected insulin . Not saying it cant but dosing becomes a bit more challenging with bigger swings in sugar . I have seen people add a specific grain to a diet which helped allot

For my Jesse I added oatmeal . That was my compromise with the grain world

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

Just to humor the vet, I purchased an 8.5 bag of Hills W/D and Max hit a low of 46 last night when before injection he was 248. Clearly, this is not his issue and I did give him Karo syrup last night when he hit it. And of course as a consequence, his numbers were in the 400’s today…
I’m still curious about the suggestion she gave about giving injections IM vs. subQ???? Makes no sense to me…
I’ll be looking for a new food again, I guess…
Donna

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

Injecting into the muscle acts as a fast acting insulin . Not recommended as you can't be sure of the result and with a dog having low sugar that's not a good idea

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Newbie needing help

seems just a. 5 reduction in insulin would be better than changing foods.
thats all u need to do!

i reduced food, added food, reduced insulin, added treats. drove me crazy.
i. ll i needed to do was make one change at a time, wait 7 days do a curve.
make changes according to the lowest number.

in Max his lowest number is 46. reduce by. 5, keep the testing

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

I don’t think lowering the dosage is the right thing to do right now. I’ve waited not a week, but three before switching the dosage. The first week (which I’ve been sending the curves) is what I’m calling my honeymoon period because all seems perfect, but I’m judging the numbers in week two and three. For instance, on 6.5, he was perfect, but then started running in the 400’s week 2 and 3. On 7.0, he started running in the 300’s week 2 and 3. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe daytime running in the 300’s is much better than the 400’s?
Anyway, what my curiosity is about why the drop at night vs. the day? He maintains pretty consistent numbers during the day, but the evening is a crap shot… He6’s fed the same food in the morning as in the evening, but only really drops in the evening. Yeah, it’s happened on a rare occasion in the morning, but almost predicable in the evening…
Good news is that I have a dear friend who does a lot of veterinary research and is in contact regularly with them and as she’s had a difficult diabetic dog (since passed), she feels my pain and is trying to find one willing to do a consult with me…
Wish us luck!
Donna and Max who is tired of getting poked several times a day and wants to know when it will end…

[jesse girl]

Re: Newbie needing help

food digestion maybe different from a meal at night compared to a meal during the morning . Some dogs do get different amounts of insulin between morning and night .

It sounds like things are improving but the lower numbers are concerning . A dose is usually based on the lowest number in a curve not the average or specific levels as low blood sugar is the most problematic

[MomtoMax]

Re: Newbie needing help

I just got a 634 reading from Max before dinner?? Very concerned! He's been pretty stable at 7 units and you've all thought I should lower it??
Very confused and concerned...
Donna and Max who wonders where his vet has gone...