Doby has gone to wait for us at the Rainbow Bridge

[Doby's Daddy]

First, allow me to apologize, as my first post will be a long one.

My name is Greg, a.k.a. Doby's Daddy. My wife, Mimi, and I have been married for 19 years. We have no "two-legged" children, however we currently live with our second Min Pin. Soon after we married we adopted a female Min Pin, J.P., whose first mother had to move into an apartment and give her up. She was the sweetest little girl, with many funny and fond memories. When she was around 7.5 to 8 years old she developed both Diabetes and Cushings. We fought this battle for nearly two years before we were forced with the awful decision to lay her to rest. We tried everything with her, driving 2.5 hours to a specialty vet for her Cushings.

Soon after J.P.'s death we got our rowdy little Momma's boys, Doby. He will be 10 years old in a couple of weeks. During his short little life he has had many vet visits, which has lead us to become close friends with our "pediatrician". At six-months he had to have surgery for hip dysplasia. Then at three he had one knee operated on for a luxating patella, with the other knee operated on a year later. We have also traveled the 2.5 hour drive with him, so that we could fix a non responsive corneal abrasion, with a specialist.

Other the past week or so we started noticing that he was drinking more than usual, and then I found the dreaded wet spot where he had been sleeping. We immediately went to his good buddy, our vet, and had the blood work done. Sure enough, our worst fear came true. He had a blood sugar reading of 524. While only one liver enzymes was elevated, we are SICK TO OUR STOMACH's thinking that our sweet little guy could possibly be faced with both awful diseases. Our vet stated that he did not feel that we would be dealing with both, we are just scared to death due to our past experience.

Many things have changed in the 9 years, since we last dealt with a diabetic dog. As of right now we have started given him 3 unites of Humulin N at 6 and 6. We were told by our vet that it is not his goal to prove to us that he can get Doby's b.s. level within the normal range. He stated that it is his goal to have Doby go back to living a normal life and not returning to the water bowl or going out to potty so often. With that he told us to monitor his behavior and increase his insulin until we noticed a difference, starting with 3 and 4 and then 4 and 4.

I trust our vet 100%, however I'm wondering what others think.

As we head back down this road, look for me to return to this forum often and I look forward to the friendships that develop.

[jesse girl]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

hi and welcome to your whole family

well i think the biggest thing in dogie diabetes from your first diabetic dog many of us are testing blood sugar at home a fantastic tool for keeping them safe and in a better range

now without it i can understand your vets approach at the best we can hope for is just not peeing in the house and not drinking gallons of water but it is possible to do better with a little work at home and testing is a big part of that

you sound like a very calm good natured person from reading your thread if its true and dogs take on our characteristics you maybe able to test your baby at home with little problem

we use the inner lip our jesse does not feel anything she feels more with her insulin shots you can role the lip up expose the canine tooth and rub a finger across that inner lip might be a bit slimmy which is good if you can do that without any rebuttal you maybe able to test that area but try that many times just to see if he is ok with that if not there are other places to test and lots of info and videos or if you just want to ask a question just ask

nobody minds long posts the more info the better

[k9diabetes]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Hi Greg,

Diabetes is pretty common in Min Pins. We have a bit of a "club" for the Min Pin folks because they aren't always the most cooperative patients. Hope Doby is working with you on his injections!

My take on regulation is on the main website, http://www.k9diabetes.com/regulated.html

We were told with our diabetic that a dog was "regulated" when he stopped urinating in the house and became a welcome family pet again. Well... for one thing, he never did pee in the house. In fact, he only drank a lot of water when his blood sugar stayed very high, 450 and higher, for an extended period of time.

We wanted more for Chris and got there with home blood glucose testing, careful experiments changing only one variable at a time, and good recording keeping on what worked and what didn't.

Chris was very amiable about testing, which some Min Pins are not. So again, I hope you have a mellow one.

Natalie

[Doby's Daddy]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Thank you Jesse Girl!

I wish my little guy had my temperament! He is an opinionated little thing, just like his momma. LOL!

Seriously, the little guy kicked my butt when we had to give him eye drops.

Does the sound of the testing not make your dog jump or startle him/her?

How much do they bleed from the gum area and does it bleed for long?

[jesse girl]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Thank you Jesse Girl!

I wish my little guy had my temperament! He is an opinionated little thing, just like his momma. LOL!

Seriously, the little guy kicked my butt when we had to give him eye drops.

Does the sound of the testing not make your dog jump or startle him/her?

How much do they bleed from the gum area and does it bleed for long?

just a bead of blood like pricking your finger maybe a little more sometimes less sometimes have to milk it a bit

yeh the mini pins can be quite spirited and as natalie said it seems not uncommon for them to come down with this disease wish they had a better temperament but nothing is impossible you can pick up an inexpensive meter at wallmart with a lance device and lances and just 50 strips you can practice dry runs as i suggested to see if it can be done my thought is nothing is impossible just maybe more work to get there

jesse is quite funny at testing i will say lets test she will run to my bed jump up i will tell her lay down she will wag her tail then i will test her then she gives me a kiss no treats what a funny girl she has been easy on that part but difficult to regulate maybe doby will be easier on regulation part

[Doby's Daddy]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Hi Greg,

Diabetes is pretty common in Min Pins. We have a bit of a "club" for the Min Pin folks because they aren't always the most cooperative patients. Hope Doby is working with you on his injections!

I honestly think I would rather wrestle an alligator than try to test him and his momma is having a hissy just thinking about the fight that would ensue between us, meaning me and Doby.

[eileen]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Welcome Greg!

Gosh, I've seen many Min Pins with diabetes in the years I've been around the world of pet diabetes, most all with quite the attitudes.
Even had a dear friend that had 3, all with diabetes and altho with attiudes was able to teach them to accept being blood tested.

Had another friend whose husband started out with using his welding gloves to hold her dog while getting that blood sample for testing...she was bound and determined with knowing how important it was to test.
Her dog finally learned to cooperate and became the best patient.

My girl was diabetic for 7 1/2 years until I lost her to bladder cancer in January. I began testing her on the day she was diagnosed with diabetes with not a single day going by without.
She was a Border Collie mx and fortunately was always wanting to please so was the most cooperative dog for anything I wanted to do for her.

I found very early on that it was easier, with less noise and less intrusive to use the tiny lancet in hand without the lancing device to prick her under lip area to draw blood for her tests.

Many dogs show no outward signs of low blood sugar as well as acting no different when in the higher ranges.
I am a strong advocate for the necessity of home blood testing to be able to find the best for ones diabetic dog....sure hope your Doby is one that will learn to accept the tests.

[Patty]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Hi Greg and welcome to you and Doby!

There are examples of home blood testing here if you want to have a look:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html

There are some dogs that just don't tolerate it well. Pam's Pip is a Min pin and one of those. She has gotten quite adept at using Ketodiastix and blood sugar curves at the vet's office to monitor her guy.

Glad to have you here!
Patty

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Welcome to you Greg.

Two ideas with the testing. If you do give it a go and want to use a lancing device ( my dog seems to not mind it as much when I use the device), try practice runs manipulating the lip, clicking the device, holding more a few seconds and then releasing for a treat. Someone could also be holding the treat in front of his nose (out of bite range) until you are ready for him to have it.

The other idea is to have curves run by doing drive bys at the vet. This is when you drive to the vet before feeding, they test and then you feed and inject, go home and then come back every 2 hrs. up to the evening meal. This is the in-between if you can't do home testing and want something a little truer then a curve where he stays at the vets all day. Day long stays at the vets can have elevated numbers due to stress, but we also have one member that his dog drops to scary lows when at the vet's.

Often, early on it seems that many dogs are overdosed. That is the risk with not home testing. We talk a lot about treating the lows here. If a dog has a low fasting it is safest to be able to reduce the dose quickly. Lots of vets have dog's come back 7-10 days after a dose change. Knowing what I know now I would want to have curves run after three days on a particular dose. Sometimes though it can take longer for a dose to settle in and lows may still happen after that time period and possibly before the tree days.

I am sure you will find a way as it seems you have spared nothing to get your children the care they need. Once a curve is run it will reveal things like when Doby has his nadir (insulin is strongest/ BGs are lowest). Knowing that might make spot checking at the vets more productive. Some vets will pick the typical nadir time, (6-8 hrs.) but it needs to be learned what is Doby's nadir time as all dog's are different. my dog has her nadir at 10-12hrs.

On the topic of fearing Cushings, a fair number of dog's come here with the vets wanting to peruse Cushings, but when the diabetes is controlled they no longer present with Cushings symptoms.

[Doby's Daddy]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Hi Greg and welcome to you and Doby!

There are examples of home blood testing here if you want to have a look:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html

There are some dogs that just don't tolerate it well. Pam's Pip is a Min pin and one of those. She has gotten quite adept at using Ketodiastix and blood sugar curves at the vet's office to monitor her guy.

Glad to have you here!
Patty

Thank you so much Patty, as I have a little guy that is being very noncooperative and has made his momma cry. He cannot stand to feel as though he is not in charge.

[Doby's Daddy]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Welcome to you Greg.

Two ideas with the testing.
...

The other idea is to have curves run by doing drive bys at the vet. This is when you drive to the vet before feeding, they test and then you feed and inject, go home and then come back every 2 hrs. up to the evening meal. This is the in-between if you can't do home testing and want something a little truer then a curve where he stays at the vets all day. Day long stays at the vets can have elevated numbers due to stress, but we also have one member that his dog drops to scary lows when at the vet's.

On the topic of fearing Cushings, a fair number of dog's come here with the vets wanting to peruse Cushings, but when the diabetes is controlled they no longer present with Cushings symptoms.

Thank you so much for this response!

We will probably choose the second idea, and allow the vets office to help us with this. As you noticed, we will sacrifice personal wants/needs to take care of our little guy.

I also deeply appreciate you addressing the Cushings issue. I hope and pray that our little guy doesn't have it!

[JayneN]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Welcome to you Greg and Doby!

Lots of good advice given here, allow it to settle in, take a deep breath and things will look brighter!!

I'm fairly new to all this, so I don't dispense too much advice but like to give encouragement and good wishes on this journey we all are on with our 4 footed babies!

[jim maceri]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Hi Greg and Doby....

Welcome. This is such a wonderful place to begin this journey. So much help, information and understanding from a group of folks who have been and are exactly where you are at. We have all been "terrified", worried, and down right panicked when we got the diagnosis of diabetes BUT with a lot of patience you will be able to help Doby live a normal and loving life.

I do like the fact that the vet is looking at this disease with the goal of having a happy dog who is able to be a dog and enjoy life. I've found out that is not only possible, but with the help of our friends on the forum you can get and keep Doby's blood sugar in an acceptable range which is different for every dog.

Again welcome, take a deep breath, things can and will get better.

Jim

[Doby's Daddy]

Re: Hello, from Doby's Daddy

Hi Greg and Doby....

Welcome. This is such a wonderful place to begin this journey. So much help, information and understanding from a group of folks who have been and are exactly where you are at. We have all been "terrified", worried, and down right panicked when we got the diagnosis of diabetes BUT with a lot of patience you will be able to help Doby live a normal and loving life.

I do like the fact that the vet is looking at this disease with the goal of having a happy dog who is able to be a dog and enjoy life. I've found out that is not only possible, but with the help of our friends on the forum you can get and keep Doby's blood sugar in an acceptable range which is different for every dog.

Again welcome, take a deep breath, things can and will get better.

Jim

Thank you so much Jim!

We are on an emotional roller coaster. One minute we are crying and sad and then the next we are saying we've got this and ready to take on anything.

Our little man just means so much to us and the thought of anything taken him prematurely from us makes us so sick.

[Doby's Daddy]

Typical insulin amount?

First let me say that I am not even aware if there is such a thing, but is there a magic number range as to the amount of insulin per pound that the typical diabetic dog should receive?

We have started our little guy that weighs 15 lbs. on 3 units at 6 & 6. He has been on it for three days now and we believe that we can see a difference in his water consumption. We will be going to the vet in the morning for blood work since he fights us when we try to test...and that makes his momma cry.