If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
jeanne,
Pebbles is on purina Dco and loves it!!!! MAybe Kiska can copy her !!
Marianne and canines: Jasmine( diabetic since 4/10) Puma,Harley,Sebastian,Sophie and cats: Yoda,Sabrina and Cleo. Also Baby Boy (my cockatiel) & Angel Pebbles
That is the turkey I use for Niki, I buy 10 of them at a time, I get a sav-a-lot, but i seen a few weeks back Aldi's had same thing different name, I did not see alot of fat in it, the brand i get is Carolina Turkey, I had a burger with it, was pretty good!!
Dolly &Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X* Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went.Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
Hi all
I have had a very busy few days.... Yard work and spring cleaning that I haven't done for the past 3 springs ... so a lot has to go !
This morning Killian' BG was 359 ... that was high for him in the morning...
I fed him and gave him his shot....
I was so busy here that it got so late when I looked at the time to give him that middle meal...( almost 9 pm) and his food and shot is to be at 11pm, so I skipped it...
I also wondered if I could go back to the two shot and meals again because I have to almost always have to hand feed him the middle meal... hes just not hungry.... then his BG goes up....
So To night I skipped it...
When I checked hi BG before the food and shot tonight it was ...54! thats 12 hrs after his last meal and shot.....
I fed him but as of yet I haven't given his shot.....
So the big question now is.... Shot or no shot.... or less insulin.....?????
If anyone is up and reading this I really need advice to what to do.....
Did you give him some syrup to shore up his blood sugar in the short term?
If you use syrup to bring his blood sugar up right away, then you don't need to worry about giving an insulin injection with the next meal because you're starting in a good range of blood sugar when you feed him.
Anything else you can give him takes too long to be converted to glucose.
Hi Natale....
No I didn't... When I checked his BG it was when I was getting his food....
So do you mean that even though it wa his food and shot time i could have given him some syrup too ?
Its now....1 hr after hi meal and he up to 110....Still not sure where to go from here...give hot or wait till his higher?
Whenever you see a low, the first thing you should do is to treat it with syrup, frosting--anything with sugar in it like that to start the bg's on their way up.
However, giving sugar is the "quick fix", but it doesn't get you 100% out of hot water. What you need after that is some food. Sugar will get bg's up quickly, but they won't stay up very long and Killian could crash again with only that. Syrup and the like are simple carbs--they work fast and fade fast.
Food with complex carbs in it take longer to work but they also last a lot longer than the syrup, etc. does. The food is what holds the bg's up after the sugar or syrup gets them to go up.
They are sorted into two basic categories--simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates. The difference between the two is this: simple carbs have much shorter chains than complex ones. This means they are broken down by the body's digestion easier, making them quickly absorbed. Complex ones have longer chains, which take longer for the body to break down by digestion. They take longer to be absorbed because the breaking down process for them is more complex.
What this means for someone with diabetes is that in eating simple carbs, such as sugar, products containing sugar, milk, fruit, etc., the rise in blood glucose levels will begin quite soon after the food has been eaten. It will also not last for an extended period of time.
When dealing with hypoglycemia, the simple carbs (like sugar and corn syrup) are desirable, because they are able to work rapidly to raise blood glucose levels. Since they work quickly, they are also expended quickly, with possibly little or nothing left to keep blood glucose levels from dropping again. Eating or feeding something with complex carbs in it shortly after the start of recovery from the hypoglycemia makes certain that there will be longer-lasting carbohydrates available to keep blood glucose levels up, after the sugar or corn syrup has worn off.
Eating complex carbs such as potatoes and grains, means that the rise in blood glucose levels from them will begin later than with the simple carbs. The rise from complex carbs is also longer lasting.
You're far better off working to get the bg's back down after something like this than to take the chance of him going into a hypo.
Yup, I would have given Chris syrup to start his blood sugar back up immediately.
Probably would have given him a half hour or so to make sure it was coming back up nicely and then I would have fed and injected, possibly reducing the dose of insulin dose... that would depend on your dog's typical response to food and insulin.
That syrup would deal with any insulin already on board and coming into the bloodstream faster than his meal and then the glucose from his meal would take over after that.
You measured 54... fifteen minutes later it could 34.
So you need a FAST source of glucose that's going directly into the bloodstream to make sure that doesn't happen.
It's different with every dog, of course, but usually diabetic dogs are intentionally fed a meal that is slowly digested over several hours. So feeding him his meal will not give him a quick surge of glucose in his bloodstream. It has to get into the stomach and be digested. That takes time.
I'd much much rather give Chris some syrup than upset his whole regimen by waiting to give the injection. There's significant benefit to keeping him on schedule, especially with slowly digested food and longer acting insulins. Now you're late giving the insulin and it's not just a matter of deciding what to do now but you also have to figure out how to get back on track.
I get the feeling you just hate the idea of giving syrup or frosting... not sure why. It's a very useful tool. Exactly because it starts fast and ends fast.
I Just checked him again and he's 254 now.....he was 110 only 25 minute ago...
Im going to give him his shot now... but I think I'll cut the dosage....
I normally give him 31 to 32 units....
Im going to go with 25 for tonight.... What do you think? ....
And maybe a milk bone?
As you can ee he gets a fast rise from food......
I Just checked him again and he's 254 now.....he was 110 only 25 minute ago...
Im going to give him his shot now... but I think I'll cut the dosage....
I normally give him 31 to 32 units....
Im going to go with 25 for tonight.... What do you think? ....
And maybe a milk bone?
As you can ee he gets a fast rise from food......
I think you are quite right to cut the dose tonight after having the low.
I doubt it. What it looks like is that Killian didn't have enough food to match the insulin dose he was taking. Your usual number of units is based on the amount of food he's getting. Today he missed the "middle" meal, but he had enough insulin on board to cover it.
When this didn't happen (the meal), he went low. The same thing can happen to people with diabetes when they miss or skip a meal--they can go low because their insulin was set up to handle the meal that didn't happen.
Going to add here that Killian might be running a bit high after doing the "dip" because the body responds by sending out signals to raise the bg's. What you have to resist though, is over compensating this by adding more insulin than usual--this is the way you set up rebounds.
It shouldn't discourage you from the thought that you might get him to 2 meals a day, if his pancreatitis will allow it. If you were giving Killian an apple 3 times a day and you still wanted to give him 3 apples but only give them to him twice, you'd cut the middle apple in half and then he'd get an apple and a half twice a day.
Last edited by We Hope; 04-16-2008, 10:22 PM.
Reason: more info
I know after I changed Niki's diet with DCO and adding some veg's her BG went down then up, the DCO never worked for us, why I have no idea....so as I worked with her diet adding veg's and pulling back on the dry dog food and got her in a (whats normal ) range of 120-180, i went from 14 and 9 units, then 12-8, still go hi's and lows, so when i changed to just homecooked it went lower then with excesive highs of 300 being too much insulin. Of course this was going on after I got to the boards and had to work with her diet, as she just cannot do the norm of 12 hr feedings with a little biscuit in between. So she finally was ok with 9 1/2 units 2 X day.
But she has to have some veg's and oats or rice at 2-3 hrs then again at 4-6 hrs, if not I will get a high of 276 -300+
So lately I changed her food from her turk-veg-oats and bought some Nutro light, I was prev using the Nutro Senior, I got confused when I bought the food, so apparently it really is lite dog food, so Niki has been going to low for my comfort, so i've been giving more veg and oats, anyway, besides that being she was doing fine with the Nutro Senior, i still had to give her a treat of 2 tablespoons of brocolli and 2 T oats and about 5 kibble after 2-3 hrs
I seen you decreased the insulin because of the severe lows, without me going back to review Kill's history, did you decrease the insulin when you changed the diet after a few days? I am only asking because Niki's BG will change in 1 day, I don't have to take 4 days to a week to see if things level out.
Niki's BG really went lower as i started homecooking. Insulin kicks in at 1 1/2 to 2 hrs keeps kicking in till about 6 hrs then a very slow decrease to the 12 hr period.
Now I am dealing with lows, i went out today and wasn't there for her 4-6 hr snack and I get a 276.
I fed her earlier and now she is looking at me, so I better check her.
the matching of insulin and food can be really frustrating especailly with the lows, one thing i did do was give her 1/2 crushed up saltine with her food at times
You could put 2 saltines in Kill's food for a quick carb.
Well I hope things are better today, till next time
Dolly &Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X* Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went.Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
Here you see it getting started at the 1-2 hour mark, and peaking (when it works hardest) between 4-6 hours, then starting to slowly fade.
Insulin kicks in at 1 1/2 to 2 hrs keeps kicking in till about 6 hrs then a very slow decrease to the 12 hr period.
There were quite a few people at the other board using NPH who had to give a bit of food or a snack when you give one of yours--when the NPH insulin is peaking--and for the same reason; their dog was going a bit too low at that peak time.
What's normal blood glucose for dogs who don't have diabetes?
Yes, that does look like how her insulin works, but that is using homecooked with lil dry dog food.
But if I fed all dry food or when i used DCO, up she goes 300+ that was on 2 C each meal using 14-9 units. Then after 3 years of listening to the AH vet she starts to go blind (no wonder) and now has been blind for 2 yrs.
I never could get her in a good range until i decrease the dry and added veg's, oats turkey etc.
The old vet just kept uping her insulin instead of figuring out why her BG was so high, I HAD TO FIGURE IT OUT, that B of a vet!!
At least now I have a vet who understands what I am doing, but they still preach the 12 hrs food and shot and no treats at first when diag, so this is not necessarly so with all dogs, and the vets don't get it.
So I only got her regulated with my homecooked and her snacks, the homecooked is not so bad, I usually fry up or bake two those 1lb's of turkey logs, put 2 paks of the broc in a food processor, and the oat or brown rice I make 2 cups I boil or nuke, but its not like I have to do this everyday being I use less turkey than the broc, and only about 1/3 C of oats or rice.
Like today I just had to make oats, I'm set for 3 + days with the turkey and broc being I did that yesterday.
Of course this is hard on people with larger dogs, more food and gets pricey.
Only other way as I was trying differnt foods about 1 1/2 years ago was using 3/4 C of Nutro Senior and 1/2 C of turkey, I got readings of 275 to a low of 160 at times, but that was not constant, but being her BG was getting better, I tried the vegs etc. So I just kept trying & had to be patient
My one mistake years ago was thinking I had to cook the brocolli, so she got less broc and no wonder she spiked, Ah!! as you go on you learn
I wonder with people who have the large dogs do they really need to chop up the veg's that are frozen aren't they par boiled before they are frozen, I think alot of people hold back on homecooking if they think they have to chop up food and do all that, that makes it tiresome for people, especially those that work have kids to take care of etc, I mean a large dog could chew that food with a snap!!
Don't we wish it could be easy, some do good with just dry some don't, but ah how we love our dogs.
Dolly &Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X* Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went.Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
When I read the ingredients in Monk's food (Hills RD) it sounds terrible but it sure works for him. I thought about changing his food and his insulin but besides that one bout of pancreatitis he does so well so I think I will leave him alone for right now even though the Lantus is so expensive compared to other insulins.
Comment