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Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog Anything related to your diabetic dog.

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  #1  
Old 03-01-2022, 06:33 PM
Beraryka Beraryka is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2022
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Default Looking for any guidance

Hello
I am new to having a diabetic pet and really want to do best by my pup. Feeling like I am failing somewhere or missing something important, so any advice, suggestions, tips, anything, verbal finger wag if I did something wrong, all would be greatly appreciated so I can do right by him.

My dog Kai was recently diagnosed with diabetes two weeks ago.
We had gone to two different vets to get a idea what was exactly going on with him. Before the first vet, he was peeing clear. First vet used a needle to the bladder for urinalysis and when we came home his pee was yellow and smelly and has continued to be. First vet had said pancreatitis along with diabetes. Second vet never mentioned pancreatitis, only said he had an enlarged liver and diabetes. Coming into the second vet, Kai was dehydrated and needed to stay a few nights. I suspect he is anemic because I have noticed his manhood and back end seem very pale. I felt the Dr. belittled a bit my concern by saying "we only look at the gums for anemia." I have been trying to educate myself about his bloodwork and it does seem he may be anemic? but I am not a DVM so i cant be for sure.
He is currently on 7ml of Vetsulin twice a day. with feeding 30mins before injection. He is a mixed breed, 3 years old going on 4 in July. his brother (same litter) is at 85+ pounds but Kai is currently at 57lbs, and underweight. Before this,he was an incredibly hyper dog, very active and talkative. Getting hyped up at any little sound. Always wanting to play.
The first week seemed ok on the insulin, though some days he would dip towards 55 and I felt I had to give a few kibbles to bring it up, as vet instructed anything under 70 is not good. (First week he was also on 2 antibiotics but finished before the 2nd week). He is very uncooperative with receiving injections and it takes my husband and I to get it done. I only have his help in the evening so mornings have become increasingly difficult. We have tried many tricks to get his mind off what were doing, but after 3 days with a new trick, he sees through the trick and wiggles away. We were instructed only scruff and shoulder blades for injection, I have heard scruff isn't as beneficial and we have been doing the shoulders.
Vet told us to give him Purina Pro Plan OM. Noticed that the kibble seems to raise his glucose level higher than wet, (maybe because its corn based?), not sure what food would be best for him? He had the kibble for the first week, we couldnt find another bag so went to the cans for 4 days. Then back to the kibble once we found it again. His original food was Orijen Original or Acana.

4 days ago, he had a very low night, it kept dropping and I stayed up to keep an eye on him & gave kibble pieces at a time to help bring him over 70. Now it seems the insulin isn't working at all. for last 3 days, it has stayed high, lucky to get it to dip under 400 and we have done the injections properly to our knowledge. Not sure why?
Today we go back to the vet for them to take the Libre off of his shoulder, but I would like to see if we can keep it and get another one possibly. Any questions I should ask? Other tests possibly? I am more than willing to do what I need to for him just concerned I am failing somewhere?
This morning was especially difficult and I wasn't able to get the whole dosage in, before he bucked around like a little pony and I lost most of it into the fur.

I am trying not to get discouraged as I know this is a process and just need to find the right combination of things to get him on a good track. But goodness this is rough!
If anyone knows of a good food, even homemade, I'l try it.

They were orphaned at 2 weeks old and I hand raised them myself. I suspect the previous owner had given Kai kibble before I got him, because same day I got them, I had taken them to the vet and he was throwing up what looked like kibble. I do suspect this contributed to his condition now, but I just want to add that in case it sparks a outside the box outlook into our situation.

I apologize for the long post, figure as much information as I can fit here might spark an idea from someone. I don't want to fail him and am more than willing to try/do anything I can to give him a good life. I am super new to this, and been trying to educate myself.

I am not sure if I am even asking the right questions at the vet. I've been suspecting water diabetes, hyperthyroidism, addisons disease or possibly an infection creating the high glucose. Also since first week was on antibiotics and
but finished them a day or two before the 2nd week came. I could be in denial about the diabetes diagnosis but I can't shake a feeling its something else creating an elevation in the glucose especially since he was dehydrated and seems anemic. I would think less blood and water in the system would raise levels, like putting a sugar cube in a gallon of water versus a water bottle, the concentration would be different.
Thank you for taking the time to read. I appreciate any guidance what so ever! <3
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2022, 12:14 AM
Riliey and Mo's Avatar
Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,945
Default Re: Looking for any guidance

welcome to you and your Kai

what did the vet say about the rise in blood sugar?

has the infection cleared up? any medications?

seems the insulin and food arent meeting up.
also he might not be getting enough food to meet up with the insulin. check the food manufacturers feed guide. how much to feed 57 lb dog./ 25 kg.

i home tested Riliey, the sensor wasnt out then. i would suggest backing up the libre curves with manual testing with a handheld meter. i used the anima l alphatrack and a human one.

freestyle meters are known to read lower and higher then other meters. that 70 you see might be higher. double checking with a hand held glucose meter will help.

injecting mid back top of the leg and rotating the site is a good spot rather than the scruff of the neck.

test before injecting. if blood glucose is below 200 wait test till its over 200 .
inject after food.

what will help with injects is putting him in a hammock. the dog sits in the cut out holes for feet etc. it will stabalize him to inject and give medications. there listed on amazon.

please post the curves youve done so we can see whats going on
your doing great with Kai
__________________
Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2022, 12:04 AM
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k9diabetes k9diabetes is offline
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Posts: 11,356
Default Re: Looking for any guidance

It's hard to say what's happening with his blood sugar at the moment - a lot depends on whether he had a urinary tract infection and/or pancreatitis plus the antibiotic could have a significant effect on his blood sugar regulation.

If you post the results of his blood panel, I can help you interpret any off readings.

That dose of insulin is not very large even with his low weight. My personal preferred starting dose is 1/5 unit per pound. That's fairly conservative. Which in his case would be 10 units.

But given how low his blood sugar was going, the dose would have to be dropped, not increased. In a way, it's good that it's no longer going low.

Dogs can honeymoon if their diabetes is caught early and that may be why his blood sugar was low at first and now is high. See our story of Chris' experience with honeymooning:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/dogdiabeteshoneymoon.html

. . . . . .

You need a vet you trust and then I would ask the vet to clearly explain the results of all of his blood testing to you - what it means and what it doesn't, how severe any off values are.

And then I'd address things like UTI and pancreatitis - sort out if he has them and treat them - and keep his insulin the same or only slightly higher so long as he's not developing ketones or spending most of the day far above 400.

The idea is to deal with issues other than the diabetes that can be treated and that could be affecting his blood sugar levels before worrying too much about regulating him better.

Even with a vet you trust, it helps to do your own research on what blood test values mean and how things like anemia are tested for and diagnosed. There are lots of great websites by veterinarians and vet schools that provide this kind of information.

I have some links on the main website: www.k9diabetes.com

But Google may work just as well so you can get the most current information.

Natalie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beraryka View Post
Hello
4 days ago, he had a very low night, it kept dropping and I stayed up to keep an eye on him & gave kibble pieces at a time to help bring him over 70. Now it seems the insulin isn't working at all. for last 3 days, it has stayed high, lucky to get it to dip under 400 and we have done the injections properly to our knowledge. Not sure why?
Today we go back to the vet for them to take the Libre off of his shoulder, but I would like to see if we can keep it and get another one possibly. Any questions I should ask? Other tests possibly? I am more than willing to do what I need to for him just concerned I am failing somewhere?
This morning was especially difficult and I wasn't able to get the whole dosage in, before he bucked around like a little pony and I lost most of it into the fur.

I am trying not to get discouraged as I know this is a process and just need to find the right combination of things to get him on a good track. But goodness this is rough!
If anyone knows of a good food, even homemade, I'll try it.
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  #4  
Old 03-10-2022, 12:18 PM
MomtoMax MomtoMax is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 101
Default Re: Looking for any guidance

Hello and welcome,
We too are new to this journey (6 months) and the first moths are the worse!!! We’ve finally got Max (30 pound, 11.5 YO Corgi) pretty stable at 9 units of Vesulin and a food that works for him…. And we tried PLENTY!! His food is now is The Honest Kitchen Base Mix and we add the meat and in his case, it’s baked, boneless, skinless chicken breast. Our Endocrinologist said to use the leanest we could. Yeah, it’s pricey and we do add a bit more meat than you need to (based on the recommendation from the Endocrinologist we were referred to by my primary vet), but it seems to be the only food that works well with his insulin. He went from numbers like 50 to over 500 on any given day for months, but seems to remain more stable now, like 100 to 250 a day. I was originally giving him the grain-free mix with the chicken already in it, but due to Covid food shortages, it’s not been available for THK, so I just spend a lot of time cooking chicken. LOL
He’s also got some bad cataracts and is totally blind, but he doesn’t seem to mind… To catch him in the falling snow yesterday once again making snow angels, makes it all worth it!!!!
Donna and Max, the crazy Corgi who will also plow snow with his nose, until he bumps into something… Then he just turns and plows in the other direction.
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