Meet Hamlet

[PercyK]

Brand new here and to diabetes, delighted to find this site.

Our Yorkie, Hamlet, or Ham to friends, which all are (big -- about 20 lbs), was just diagnosed today. He starts tonight on two per day of Humulin NPH, 3 units per injection. More bloods to be done next Monday.

We have two. The other is Henry, or Hennie to those same friends (small -- about 5 pounds), a lymphangectasia survivor -- so far.

Percy

[CraigM]

Re: Which insulin do you use?

Brand new here and to diabetes, delighted to find this site.

Our Yorkie, Hamlet, or Ham to friends, which all are (big -- about 20 lbs), was just diagnosed today. He starts tonight on two per day of Humulin NPH, 3 units per injection. More bloods to be done next Monday.

We have two. The other is Henry, or Hennie to those same friends (small -- about 5 pounds), a lymphangectasia survivor -- so far.

Percy

Welcome to the forum!
You might mention to your vet that Novolin-N (very similar to Humulin-N, both NPH) is only $25 at Walmart. Although you are starting at only 3 units, you might end up at a larger dosage and the lower cost might be nice. Just as an example (every dog / situation is different), my Annie is about 18 pounds and is currently at 6.75 - 7 units.

Other supplies like syringes are also probably less expensive at Walmart.

Craig

[Joan]

Re: Meet Hamlet

Welcome, you will find many knowledgeable people who have all been thru this and will help you with it.

FYI Walmart sells both Novolin N and Humulin N for $24.88 per 10cc bottle

[CraigM]

Re: Meet Hamlet

FYI Walmart sells both Novolin N and Humulin N for $24.88 per 10cc bottle

dont think Humulin is the discounted insulin, just a couple versions of Novolin (N, R, 70/30). Several years ago Humulin had the Walmart contract, but not now.

Craig

[Monsters Momma]

Re: Which insulin do you use?

Welcome! I have found this site full of people with a lot of knowledge about this diabetes thing! They have always been more than willing to share experiences with me and Vinny! I hope you find all of us helpful to you and Ham!

Can you tell us a bit more about Ham? You've mentioned weight and insulin, how about food and exercise? What other tests are going to be done on Monday and what has already been done? The more you share, the more help we'll be. Diabetes is overwhelming at first, but very shortly, you'll become an expert with Ham...and his biggest advocate!

Welcome again!
Mel and Vinny

[PercyK]

Re: Meet Hamlet

Thanks to Joan, CraigM and Monsters Moma! We certainly will be checking out Humulin versus Novolin with our vet and try to lower the insulin cost going forward. Just a smattering of reading suggests Humulin might be more reliable and easiest for dogs to adjust to (that is, getting "regulated") -- a least that's how it seems to me at the moment, but I'm too new at this to have much basis for that.

Both eat (embarrassed to say) Kirkland Roast Beef Top Round mainly, two-three times a day, and Bill Jack Small Breed dry food. They are housebound dogs for the most part with a little outside time on our porch -- but only during non-winter months. They are as active as they are moved to be -- like barking at outside things or visitors to the front door or chasing one of our cats from time to time, though not seriously. They go up and down stairs as my wife or I move around our house. We have doggy beds of various sizes and types all over the place. Ham naps a lot, but both do that, really.

We ran into Ham's lowered blood sugar level when he was being prepped for a teeth cleaning and some work on a suspicious gum something or other. Got a call from the vet suggesting there could be risk to Ham if the procedure went forward given what his pre-anesthesia blood test showed. Of course, that was that. The diabetes possibility was confirmed by blood and urine retest.

I have not met yet with our vet about Ham's diabetes, though my wife has. I have no numbers on him at this point. Blood and urine tests have been done twice and one suspects only blood will be repeated Monday (to see how the injections are working). I hope to get copies of that blood work, when done, of his two most recent blood and urine reports, and of whatever the other most recent older blood test said, too.

Percy

[CraigM]

Re: Meet Hamlet

Thanks to Joan, CraigM and Monsters Moma! We certainly will be checking out Humulin versus Novolin with our vet and try to lower the insulin cost going forward. Just a smattering of reading suggests Humulin might be more reliable and easiest for dogs to adjust to (that is, getting "regulated") -- a least that's how it seems to me at the moment, but I'm too new at this to have much basis for that.

Many of us "old timers" have used both Humulin-N and Novolin-N from Walmart and see no, or very minor, difference. Of course every pup is different. I personally don't see any reason to spend $130+ for Humulin if the $25 Novolin-N does the job

Both eat (embarrassed to say) Kirkland Roast Beef Top Round mainly, two-three times a day, and Bill Jack Small Breed dry food. They are housebound dogs for the most part with a little outside time on our porch -- but only during non-winter months. They are as active as they are moved to be -- like barking at outside things or visitors to the front door or chasing one of our cats from time to time, though not seriously. They go up and down stairs as my wife or I move around our house. We have doggy beds of various sizes and types all over the place. Ham naps a lot, but both do that, really.

Really suggest you limit the food to two meals per day, along with the insulin. An "extra" meal would likely mess-up BG regulation. Basically, food will normally cause the BGs to rise, so a midday meal would just defeat the mornings insulin.
Talking about food, consistency is also very important. Some of us use a kitchen food scale to weigh the food because the amount of food can make regulation more difficult.


We ran into Ham's lowered blood sugar level when he was being prepped for a teeth cleaning and some work on a suspicious gum something or other. Got a call from the vet suggesting there could be risk to Ham if the procedure went forward given what his pre-anesthesia blood test showed. Of course, that was that. The diabetes possibility was confirmed by blood and urine retest.

I have not met yet with our vet about Ham's diabetes, though my wife has. I have no numbers on him at this point. Blood and urine tests have been done twice and one suspects only blood will be repeated Monday (to see how the injections are working). I hope to get copies of that blood work, when done, of his two most recent blood and urine reports, and of whatever the other most recent older blood test said, too.

Are you thinking about home blood testing? Home testing saves money, gives you much better info than stressful testing at the clinic, and has become sort-of a hobby for some of us!


Percy

Be sure to post whatever BG numbers you get from the ext vet appointment.

Craig

[PercyK]

Re: Meet Hamlet

Craig,Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Walmart and Novalin (vet consenting, I hope), here I come!

Percy

[amydunn19]

Re: Meet Hamlet

I have switched between humulin and novolin and found them to be very close. My dog requires a half unit less of novolin and the insulin seems to last longer - she seems to run out of humulin at the 9th hour. All dogs are different but these insulins are basically the same just different brands.

Home testing will save you some money and give you some peace of mind.

We look forward to learning more about Hamlet!

[CraigM]

Re: Meet Hamlet

Just adding a little background information about the insulins from Walmart (ReliOn). Walmart uses diabetic supplies to get folks into their stores. They probably figure they can get human diabetics into their store several times a month selling insulin at a discount, and then folks will do other shopping while there.

There are two major makers of insulin: Novo Nordisk that produces Novolin, and Lilly that produces Humulin. It seems that every several years Walmart renews the insulin contract with whichever company that will provide insulin at the lowest cost. In the past 5(?) years the contract has gone from Novolin to Humulin and back to Novolin.

Both Novolin and Humulin are name brand insulin and are not generic, so there might be slight differences. Because most of us replace the insulin every 4-6 weeks, the price difference really adds up over time.

Craig

[PercyK]

Re: Meet Hamlet

There are two major makers of insulin: Novo Nordisk that produces Novolin, and Lilly that produces Humulin. It seems that every several years Walmart renews the insulin contract with whichever company that will provide insulin at the lowest cost. In the past 5(?) years the contract has gone from Novolin to Humulin and back to Novolin.

Both Novolin and Humulin are name brand insulin and are not generic, so there might be slight differences. Because most of us replace the insulin every 4-6 weeks, the price difference really adds up over time.

Craig

Very helpful. Thanks. Needless to say, I am anticipating joining the every 4-6 weeks crowd.

Percy

[PercyK]

Re: Meet Hamlet

Be sure to post whatever BG numbers you get from the ext vet appointment.

Craig

Just learned Hamlet's BG level is 486 , pretty high -- unchanged from a week before we began the glucose injections (Humulin NPH, 3 units per injection). His dosage was then increased from three to four units. He also is taking Theophylline for breathing problems.

He has experienced two bouts of what I can only describe as confusion (turning in a circle slowly, not seeming to know what was going on) lately, including last night. He is also is experiencing breathing difficulty (short, shallow breaths like panting).

He is to see the vet later today. Our regular vet who has been treating him,. however, is tied up in surgery and we repose little confidence in the other one who is the only other one at this clinic who is free to see him -- but perhaps she can consult with his regular vet and surely there are records that cover what has been going on.

I'm worried and my wife is worse off than that at the moment. Suggestions would be more than welcome.

Percy

[jesse girl]

Re: Meet Hamlet

are they doing complete curves by testing blood sugar throughout the day every 2 hours or just one test

one test a day is not a good way to determine a dose adjustment because blood sugar can be quite differant anytime of the day

say that 486 was tested at noon it could be 100 at 4 pm thats why we do curves to know for sure and not guessing

the panting and confusion maybe caused by high blood or blood sugar swinging wildly from low to high dont have enough info to determine that . of coarse the other medical conditions may have an impact

recommend testing blood sugar at home it does make a huge difference in keeping a pup safe and get to a better place

[PercyK]

Re: Meet Hamlet

one test a day is not a good way to determine a dose adjustment because blood sugar can be quite differant anytime of the day . . .

the panting and confusion maybe caused by high blood or blood sugar swinging wildly from low to high dont have enough info to determine that . of coarse the other medical conditions may have an impact

recommend testing blood sugar at home it does make a huge difference in keeping a pup safe and get to a better place

Thanks very much.

I realize we ought to do enough testing, ourselves or at the vet, to get a curve, but the ones we have all all one-off. As to timing, Ham was fed at 7:30 a.m. (new diet: Hill's Prescription Diet w/d Digestive/Weight/Glucose Management) and given his insulin injection; tested at 1:30 p.m. -- now down to about 380; insulin injection raised to five units per injection. He'll be fed and injected again at about 7:30 p.m. He's lost a little weight, I think, all for the better.

Trying to get my wife to agree to home blood testing with a meter.

Breathing a problem for a lot of Yorkies: collapsing trachea issue. No fix for that except surgery with a bad success record (and considerable discomfort, I would think). But I am not at all sure his breathing problem at this time is due to, say, over-excitement or exertion. So high blood pressure under the circumstances is suggestive.

Sleeping post-vet and breathing pretty well at the moment.

Percy

[amydunn19]

Re: Meet Hamlet

Home blood testing makes the most sense. Your dog is more comfortable in your home - many dogs, like mine, are nervous at the vet so the numbers are less likely to be as accurate.

Basing dose adjustments on one test is not a very safe way of increasing. Many vets think all dogs experience lows at the same time but we have found that not to be true. I always get very nervous when vets don't do multiple tests per day or curves.