kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

[Patty]

I desperately need some help with the dosage Conversions regarding Vetsulin to Humulin N.I just found out today that My Vet has finally depleted his Stock-pile of Vetsulin. Seems he felt making a profit as long as possible was more important than my dog’s life. he said to “Give my Maggie the exact same amount of Humulin as I did Vetsulin!”Finally a Tech assistant said that this was the dosage:
15 cc of Vetsulin = 6 cc of Humulin N
10 cc of Vetsulin = 4 cc of Humulin N

Is that right? Do I just divide the dosage by 2.5? And also am I suppose to just COLD TURKEY switch her? I am so upset with this so called Medical Doctor I could scream! But as it stands I can’t afford to go to a new one.. Any help, advice, websites anything that could help would really be appreciated!

[BestBuddy]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Vetsulin/Caninsulin is a U40 and Humulin/Novolin N is a U100 so yes the difference is 2.5. The thing you need to be careful of is whether you are using U40 or U100 syringes.
They only way to change is to give the Vetsulin injection (morning or night) whenever you feel comfortable with making the change and then next injection give the N. Most make the change on a weekend so that they can watch any changes in their dog. If you home BG test then it makes it so much easier because you can check the BG at any time to see how things are going and not be guessing.

Jenny

[k9diabetes]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Hi Kelly,

Did the vet give you U100 syringes to go with the NPH or are you still using U40 syringes that go with the Vetsulin?

The conversion is needed only if you are not matching the syringes with the insulin.

And then usually it's good to reduce the number of units of insulin that you are giving when you change to a new insulin because their actions may be somewhat different - we recommend about 20-25%.

Natalie

[peggy0]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Yes you can switch her cold turkey. You need a different type of syringe. You need a u100 syringe. DO NOT USE THE SYRINGES YOU USED FOR VETSULIN. CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, Target all sell them. The recommended dosage is to cut the vetsulin dosage by 25%. So if you were giving 10 units of Vetsulin, start at 7.5 units of Humulin N in the U100 syringes. Please let us know you understand that you have to use a different syringe.

[Patty]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Hi and welcome. I copied your post from your profile page to the main forum where more people will see it and be able to respond.

I think your vet tech is thinking along the lines that Humulin N is 2.5 times more concentrated than Vetsulin. However, a unit of insulin is a unit of insulin. The syringes you use will be different and make up for the difference in concentration.

So you'll want to ask for U100 insulin syringes when switching to Humulin N.
If you are giving under 30 units of insulin, you can ask for the 3/10cc syringes with the 1/2 unit markings which make fine tuning the dose a bit easier.

If you are looking to save money, Novolin N is essentially the same insulin made by a different company. Wal-Mart contracts with the company under the name Relion Novolin N for around $28.

Can you tell us a bit more about Maggie to help with dosing...
How much does she weigh?
What kind of food is she eating?
How many units of Vetsulin is she currently getting?
Is she on twice daily injections? 12 hours apart?
Do you have a copy of her most recent curve?
How long has she been diabetic?

Again welcome!
Patty

[kellybabbit]

Please help with conversion to humulin H

I desperately need some help with the dosage Conversions regarding Vetsulin to Humulin N.I just found out today that My Vet has finally depleted his Stock-pile of Vetsulin. Seems he felt making a profit as long as possible was more important than my dog’s life. He has never- not even today mentioned any issues regarding the possible dangers with Vetsulin only that * He bought all he could before they made it official & they stopped making it* Now this man also fought me tooth and nail over prescribing human needles citing the conversion is not possible( of course he is wrong) he charged 40$ for 50 Pet needles and CVS charges 14$ for 200 but now on top of all of this he said to “Give my Maggie the exact same amount of Humulin as I did Vetsulin!!!!!!!!!!!!” Ummm NO I can’t do that DOCTOR-they are not the same strength! It took me over an hour of trying to prove to him the difference between 40 IU insulin & 100IU insulin & I still don’t think him or his nurses got it! I really don’t! Had I not known any better I would of given my baby 15 cc of Humulin!!!! Finally a Tech assistant said that this was the dosage:
15 cc of Vetsulin = 6 cc of Humulin N
10 cc of Vetsulin = 4 cc of Humulin N

Is that right? Do I just divide the dosage by 2.5? or is it pretty much the same! I AM SO CONFUSED! And also am I suppose to just COLD TURKEY switch her? I am so upset with this so called Medical Doctor I could scream! But as it stands I can’t afford to go to a new one.. Any help, advice, websites anything that could help would really be appreciated!

[BestBuddy]

Re: Please help with conversion to humulin H

Patty has set up another thread for you a couple down and there are a few replies there so I won't repeat myself.
Welcome
Jenny

[kellybabbit]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

OMG YOU GUYS ARE GREAT!*cries* Ok Maggie weighs prolly about 75 lbs- she is getting fat again- I tried desperately to cook chicken & brown rice with vegetables for her and she snubbed her nose at them.. I have tried to get her to eat *Blue* low carb canned and she hates it! she will only eat crappy Pedigree weight control.. she takes 15 units in the morning & 10 units at night and NO I DONT USE U40 Needles.. so i can understand WHY i am confused as to the dosage - but i am still scared to death! So If I am using U100 Needles and Now have U100 insulin she would still actually take 15 units of that the same as she did the U40?
And I have not been able to get her checked in a long time- the vet charges almost 25 bucks a pop to check bg..

[Patty]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Ok...there may be some duplication but I merged your threads together so all the information is in one place.

So are the syringes you're currently using the "pet needles" you said your vet sold you? I'm confused as I would have thought they'd be U40 to match the Vetsulin.

Patty

[ozzi]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Hi and Welcome!

You are correct....if you are using U100 syringes, you can give her 15 units of NPH (whether it is Humulin-N or Relion Novolin-N). Has Maggie had a blood glucose curve? Why is she getting such a different morning and evening insulin dose? Sometimes the evening dose is different by a unit or so, but 5 units seems like a large disparity.

She really needs to be checked, especially now that you are changing insulins. Do you know how to home test? I would highly recommend learning if you don't know how to...there are many resources and people here to help you. It's not only cheaper than $25/test, but will allow you to do your own curve and see how she is responding to insulin. I'm going to guess that her morning BG is higher than her evening BG given the difference in the insulin dose. It would be nice to see those numbers and get a handle on how regulated she is or isn't. If you aren't already doing this, please know that it's really, really important to feed her and give her NPH every 12 hours (within 15 minutes) so that you are as consistent as possible with feedings and insulin. This will make a huge difference for her.

Patty's questions are very important, and will help us to help you. My input on food is that it's critical that she eat with the injections, so if all she'll eat is Pedigree Weight Control, then that's fine. You can adjust her insulin based on what she eats, but you have to be consistent in the timing and the amount. Is she eating anything else during the day aside from the Pedigree?

Kevin

[Patty]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Kelly,
If you are using U100 syringes for U40 insulin, that explains the vet techs conversion.

15 cc of Vetsulin = 6 cc of Humulin N
10 cc of Vetsulin = 4 cc of Humulin N

If you are filling a U100 syringe to the 15 marker with Vetsulin, that is the equivalent of filling the same syringe to the 6 marker line with Humulin N.

Please let us know exactly what syringes you are currently using with the Vetsulin. This is very important.

As Kevin mentioned, home testing would be a big benefit in switching. Would you be up for trying?

Do you know how well regulated Maggie currently is?

Do you have any previous numbers you could post?

That would give you a better idea of how much to reduce the dose in switching.

Patty

[BestBuddy]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

I think it is important in the beginning to keep the food the same. If Maggie happily eats the pedigree then I wouldn't try to change just yet.

I just want to make sure when you say you are giving 15 and 10 in a U100 syringe are you talking about the marker 15/10 on the syringe or actual units. This is really important.

I always used a U100 syringe with Caninsulin/Vetsulin and it was the marker 12 on the syringe but it was actually only 4.8 units of insulin.

Jenny

[kellybabbit]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

I really couldn't tell you why the vet has her dosage set like that- Until today - I really believed he was a good man- but I will NEVER forgive him for this failure & the Vetsulin Warning.he gave her a massive shot of steroids about a yr & a half ago and she peed all over the place for a week & 4 days after that she started vomiting & was diagnosed with the diabetes- I think he did this to her....At any-rate yes Maggie Nibbles on things like Cottage Cheese, sometimes some diabetic yogurt if the store has it.. she like peanut butter but- its so messy & she is so furry..lol.,she also eats dry food that is available at all times... and she eats with her morning shot but has eaten 3 hours earlier with her evening shot-the vet told me that with her evening shot it wasn't really important that she had eaten 3 hours earlier..I gave her 6 units tonight of the Humulin N ,do you think that was ok? and yes i will start testing her but i am so insecure about all of this...I dont want to hurt her!

[kellybabbit]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

Yes I understand the Conversions in regards to The Needles.. When I changed to U100 needles when still using vetsulin I gave her 37.2 in the mornings & 25 in the evening of vetsulin - which equaled 15 & 10.. But Now i have Humulin N insulin ..and The vet said that I give her 15 units of that-that the insulin's are the same. which is where i was getting really confused..still am actually..

[kellybabbit]

Re: kellybabbit Switching from Vetsulin to Humulin N

I was giving her 15 units of vetsulin that messured 37.2 on the U100 needles... I have not had a U40 needle in a long time