What number is considered LOW?

[silkiegal]

Is it different for every dog?
Our vet says we never want BG to get below 200...
Not above 450
Thoughts?

Silkiegal

[peggy0]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

The perfect range is 80 to 150. I don't like my dog to go under 100. He had a tendency to spike when he went below 100. He also had gone blind. When the dogs gone blind, some vets extend the 150 to 250 as the high. My rule was if he was typically between 120 and 220 I was happy I don't understand your vets rule of thumb.

[Patty]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

Some vets are conservative to avoid hypos in dogs where the owners don't home test. A range of 200-450 is well above the renal threshold (170).

I'd aim to keep under 170 for as much of the day as possible. But like Peggy, I prefer to stay above 100 or 120 to allow for days that run lower.

[MaryLea]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

Our (new) vet was happy today that most of our numbers are in the 100s and 200s. Every vet we've been to so far, and there have been about five lately (!), wanted the numbers below the 300s and 400s.

[silkiegal]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

Silkie was 366 before breakfast this morning. That is a bit high, because it is before a meal, right??

I might have asked this already, sorry but:

---When is BEST time to test?
---How aften

Silkie is freaking out from the lancet. We just prick him a little in the callus
of elbow. He is NOT standing for it though, I feel SO bad, I dont want to hurt him. I wont do the inner lip, any othe rplaces? He is VERY sensative and nervous.

Thanks,
Silkiegal

[k9diabetes]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

I would strongy disagree with your vet - I would aim for the blood sugar to always be UNDER 200 if the curve is flat enough to allow for that.

My most-reasonable ideal is a dog's blood sugar being between 100 and 200 all day. That's not always possible but it's what I suggest aiming for.

There aren't any "rules" about when to test or how often. Some people do curves only every few months, some people test a few times a week, some people test once a day, some test more than once a day. It depends on your dog's curve - how flat the profile of the curve is, how tight the regulation is, how consistent they are in giving more or less the same blood sugar every day, how well your dog tolerates testing...

In the beginning, curves are the most valuable thing because they tell you about regulation in general and when the problem times might be. Plus how well the current diet is matched to the insulin. The better the match of the diet, the tighter the regulation can be.

Natalie

[eileen]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

I've always tested at every fasting as well as sometimes in mid afternoon, each and every day. It's just become a part of the routine as is the injection twice a day.

Fortunately I have a co operative dog.

There is no set 'must test' schedule.

I also disagree with your vet and concur with Natalie...between 100-200 would be ideal.

[silkiegal]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

I would strongy disagree with your vet - I would aim for the blood sugar to always be UNDER 200 if the curve is flat enough to allow for that.

My most-reasonable ideal is a dog's blood sugar being between 100 and 200 all day. That's not always possible but it's what I suggest aiming for.

There aren't any "rules" about when to test or how often. Some people do curves only every few months, some people test a few times a week, some people test once a day, some test more than once a day. It depends on your dog's curve - how flat the profile of the curve is, how tight the regulation is, how consistent they are in giving more or less the same blood sugar every day, how well your dog tolerates testing...

In the beginning, curves are the most valuable thing because they tell you about regulation in general and when the problem times might be. Plus how well the current diet is matched to the insulin. The better the match of the diet, the tighter the regulation can be.

Natalie

Wow. My vet told me to call her asap and scheduale a curve if his levels go under 200. Silkie is not good, so far about being tested at home. he literally freaks.

[silkiegal]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

I've always tested at every fasting as well as sometimes in mid afternoon, each and every day. It's just become a part of the routine as is the injection twice a day.

Fortunately I have a co operative dog.

There is no set 'must test' schedule.

I also disagree with your vet and concur with Natalie...between 100-200 would be ideal.

Ok. How could my vet be wrong though?

[peggy0]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

Have a read

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki..._glucose_level

[pgcor]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

I could write a book on all the "bad" advice I received from the Vets in my area. This is not to say they are not well meaning, but has more to do with inexperience in treating this condition.

I was told not to blood or urine test, just look for clinical signs. Unfortunately my Pip doesn't exihibit typical clinical signs of low or high blood glucose.

I've been to seven different Veterinarians since my dog was diagnosed. I've learned that I had to educate myself to the best of my ability to be able to make intelligent decisions about my dog's health. AND to read here as frequently as possible.

There is no substitute for the collective experience of this board. It just isn't possible. We are all so lucky that Natalie decided to do this!

The only advice I can give you is that I was reluctant to follow the advice of people on the Internet because I didn't know who they were! I was wrong.

You can trust Natalie and her moderators, Patty and Peggy, they do know what they're talking about.

Plus, add in the experience of the members here and you really can't miss taking good care of your dog.

Pam

[eileen]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

Ok. How could my vet be wrong though?

oh my....where do I begin to tell of the times a vet has been wrong with owners in treating this disease.


GREAT link, Peggy.

[k9diabetes]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

I think scheduling a curve when the blood sugar drops below 200 is a good idea. Spot checks of blood sugar don't tell you a whole lot. You need a curve to know what any one reading means and whether there are problems with the regulation.

But I wouldn't drop the insulin dose unless the lowest blood sugar reading on the curve was below 100.

Home blood glucose meters have changed the way a dog's diabetes can be managed. Ten years ago, the only home tool available was urine test strips and those don't tell you anything about blood sugar once it gets below about 180. If you got a negative urine test, the blood sugar could be 180 or it could be 30. No way to know. So the standard practice was to run the blood sugar high enough that there was never any question about it being low.

That may have meant zero change of a hypoglycemic event, but it also meant a lot of dogs suffering severely from the side effects of uncontrolled diabetes. Blindness from cataracts was virtually guaranteed.

Handheld meters for home use have made it possible to more tightly regulate diabetic dogs because now we can know if the blood sugar is going too low and to accurately measure it throughout the day and get a real picture of how well the food and insulin are balanced.

But it is going to take a while for these changes to be well established in the veterinary community. We had our dog seen in 2004 by a veterinary teaching hospital endocrinologist and at the time he was advising us to just "go by clinical signs" and was okay with blood sugar that was going from 100 to 450 in 12 hours. This is a person who teaches young veterinarians how to manage diabetes...

Like Pam's Pip, our dog didn't do clinical signs. He didn't start drinking more water until his blood sugar was sustained at more than 450 for a number of hours. So if we had followed the endocrinologist's advice, Chris' blood sugar levels would have been terrible.

We knew we could do better for Chris. So we stopped bothering with the endocrinologist and changed veterinarians to work with one who was interested in getting better regulation of our dog's blood sugar.

And we started home testing routinely - fortunately, Chris was great about home testing - and learning to manage blood sugar ourselves. And as a result, Chris was able to spend most of his time with blood sugar under 200 and only rarely had any spilling of glucose into his urine.

It is sad, to me, how low the expectations for diabetic dogs have been for so many years. I realize not everyone will do for their dogs what the folks who come to a forum are willing to do. There are still dogs for whom diabetes is considered grounds for euthanasia.... but I do wish that the veterinary standards for diabetics would start with the assumption that their clients want to do what's best for the dog - good regulation - and then only give up on really good regulation when the client refuses to do it.

Off soapbox...

Natalie

[eyelostit]

Re: What number is considered LOW?

Welcome

You will learn alot here, I have found over the years most vets don't really give their best when it comes to diabetes. One vet told me Niki's bg should stay at 180 all day, what an imbecile

Home bg testing is very important for your piece of mind and to know your pet is doing well.

As you learn about the bg figures and foods used, the high and low numbers, how to correct them and from members I know you'll be helping others someday.