Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

[chezz]

Hi there

My Name is Cheryl I am in Australia I just found out my beloved dog has diabetes he is spent the day at vets and they told me he reading was 23 and after the insulin it came to 17 I asked her if I could test my little man at home and she said no …I said I don’t understand why you can’t test at home as when I was pregnant I had gestational diabetes …she said that was their job to monitor it and to bring him back next week for his curves ……of course I was not happy with this because I was worried I would over dose him on insulin if his readings where not that bad , so I jumped on the net and this is where I am at…

I also have heard of a dvd called reversing diabetes in 30 days by raw for life ( for humans) so I started thinking if a raw diet reverses diabetes in humans why can’t it work for dogs I haven’t feed him commercial food since reading food pets die for by Anne martin ..however I was feeding him brown rice potatoes and pasta mixed with raw mince …..obviously this has not been the best heath choice as I didn’t know of his condition until know, I did find b.a.r.f but I noticed it has carrots in the formula and carrots contain natural sugar I am so confused

I have him on turkey. Chicken and salmon at the moment but he is a big boy so it gunna cost me a fortune … can you please help me with some advice

I love my boy so much and I am devastated at the news

I Went out yesterday and bought a meter to measure his levels this morning his reading was 23..5 I tested him again at 1.02 pm and his reading was 22.9 …I have no idea what I am doing here because my vet gave me no advise on food except just keep feeding what you always feed him …but isn’t rice, patatos, pasta all wrong ..

Also has anyone on here have an unvaccinated dog with diabetes ???? think I will find a new vet please help he is a collie x blue healer on 5ml insulin twice a day …the vet said to olny feed him twice a day when his shots are due is this correct

cheryl

[JayneN]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

Welcome Cheryl!

I won't give advice, I'm too new to this whole thing myself, but wanted to welcome you and let you know that our very helpful posters here will pop on and help you out!

I do know that not to panic is rule #1 and relax is rule #2....I know it's hard, but it will all work out in due time with patience and help from friends here!

Jayne & Shadow

[jgr789]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

Hi Cheryl and welcome!

I too am too new to this whole diabetic dog situation to be giving any specific advice other than read as many threads as you can and you will learn more than you probably ever wanted to know about how to deal with your dog's health challenges.

In the beginning the whole thing is extremely overwhelming and requires a great deal of patience. It can take awhile to figure out how to get regulated and even though we were diagnosed the last week in December, we are still trying to get it right, making one small change at a time.

Good luck! Ask questions.

Judy and (Sadie)

[k9diabetes]

diets and diabetes

Hi Cheryl,

Welcome to the forum!

I also have heard of a dvd called reversing diabetes in 30 days by raw for life ( for humans) so I started thinking if a raw diet reverses diabetes in humans why can’t it work for dogs

Diabetes in dogs is akin to Type 1 diabetes in people - the pancreas physically loses the ability to produce insulin due to an autoimmune disorder. Those beta cells inevitably eventually all die and dogs become 100% dependent on injected insulin.

So there is no diet that can reverse diabetes for dogs.

Cats have more like Type 2 diabetes in people and for them diet changes can put the diabetes into remission. They often retain insulin-producing ability.

Another thing about dogs vs. humans is that dogs tend to process insulins somewhat faster than people do and consequently they don't often regulate well with protein only diets. They generally need some kind of carbohydrates - vegetables can work but some dogs need something even more readily digestible like rice for the food and insulin to work well together.

The last big difference between human and canine diabetes is good news. Dogs can tolerate higher levels of blood sugar without major problems and they generally do not suffer the really dire consequences of Type 1 diabetes that people often do. It's partly probably a difference in life span in that dogs don't live with diabetes for 50 or 60 years. But it's also largely a species difference.

The major side effect of diabetes in dogs is diabetes-induced cataracts. The high sugar levels causes changes in their lenses and cataracts are extremely common. This is another species difference as cats almost never develop cataracts even with quite high blood sugar.

I am thrilled you decided to home test blood sugar anyway. That will tell you whether your dog's current diet and the injected insulin are well matched to each other, providing food and insulin together to keep the blood sugar fairly level.

If you find that the food and insulin aren't well matched, there are many ways to tweak the diet to resolve problems.

Natalie

[farrwf]

Re: Your dog's diet, insulin, and meter used

Hi there

My Name is Cheryl I am in Australia I just found out my beloved dog has diabetes he is spent the day at vets and they told me he reading was 23 and after the insulin it came to 17 I asked her if I could test my little man at home and she said no

I love my boy so much and I am devastated at the news

cheryl

Welcome, you'll find about all the info & support you'll need right here.

I'm sure some of our more seasoned members will be along shortly to help you. ... [[OOPS, I see one just has!]] You're fortunate in that your guy's readings aren't real high for an initial diagnosis.

How much does your guy weigh?

Your inclination to find a different vet is probably a good idea based on what you've said about your current one.

Take a deep breath & climb aboard!

[jesse girl]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

well its great to take your own advice and test at home it really does not make much sense to give a diabetic dog or humane a full dose of insulin and not test before its a wonderful tool why not use it especially at the beginning you just dont know if the dose is to much even being conservative and like you said there can be miss diagnosis

i had hopes for jesse that this maybe temporary 2 years ago it appeared she produced some insulin but not enough and diet alone was not going to solve it and injectable insulin was needed she was not spayed at the time and she did just come off of being in heat so there was some hope but after doing some research it is rare .

it will be nice to find a new vet with the power you already have by home testing and the new vet will have to accept that which will keep your baby safe and can shorten the time to better numbers it good for all parties to be upfront with each other

its always nice to compare your meter with vet if you are using a humane meter at a higher range it can be off a bit and can get very accurate at a more normal range but thats not a big deal high is high what you are looking for is trends and how blood sugar reacts with insulin throughout the day

i would not deter you from exploring other possibilities but your testing will determine if your baby needs insulin . overdosing for me can be the biggest problem at the beginning a dog may still produce some insulin and a normal starting dose maybe to much for me a clue to that is large swings in blood sugar

the most important thing we make dose adjustments on is the lowest number tested throughout the day not the average or highest because as you know from your own experiences low blood sugar is the most problematic maybe more so in dogs because they seem to tolerate higher levels better than us

a big welcome to both of you ask anything you want long and short stories we enjoy reading and maybe offering some advice

[Shellie]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

Hi Cheryl and welcome to the forum! So glad you found us here! I think you'll find that there are some of the most fantastic and helpful folks here... some of whom have already chimed in!

I think your idea of getting a new vet is a good one. I can't imagine any vet being so proprietary as to completely toss out the idea of you testing at home. Even if they have doubts about your ability, most will sort of raise their eyebrows and give in. I'm wondering if this vet has had bad experiences. Is she a good vet in all other things? Might be something to explore if she's good with diabetics but just not a home tester.

I think sometimes you just have to put your foot down...and boy is that hard! LOL But when it comes to your baby and their health...it's worth anything.

Did I miss you mentioning what your pup's name is? Would love to see a pic, too!

As for diet...I generally suggest some research is in order. I also suggest a good spot to begin is over at www.dogfoodadvisor.com. They can give you some idea of what to look for and then you can do even more research should you choose to. I think most dogs here use various commercial diets but we do have a number of home diets, raw diets, and lots of others. Very variable as to what will work for your dog other than the basics of proteins, carbs, and fat.

Just remember, if you do choose to change the diet, you will need to give each change...whether it's a new dose or a new food...at least a week to settle in. Don't change things at the same time or you won't know which thing did what. Was it the food or the insulin or the exercise?

Big thing with this disease is just being patient. Like Natalie said, dogs can take a higher level longer but of course, you want him regulated. You'll get there...slow and steady! Might take a month...could be six. Every dog is different...that should be rule number three after Jayne's other two! LOL

I'm babbling..so again, welcome! Hugs!

[Patty]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

Hi Cheryl and welcome to you!

You mentioned your dog is on 5 units of insulin twice a day. Is that Caninsulin?

I feed my dog a commercial raw diet but have had to split her meals and add cooked green lentils as a carb to balance the peak of her insulin (NPH).

Because dogs do utilize insulin differently as Natalie said, you may need those carbs to balance the action of her insulin.

I would continue feeding a balanced diet as you have been. Then do a curve (congrats on home testing!) after a week or so to see how well the food and insulin are matched. http://www.k9diabetes.com/insulinfood.html If you have large swings in blood sugar from high to low points, then tweaking the food can help level things out. But I'd let the numbers tell you what changes will need to be made.

Again, welcome to you!
Patty

[SandyL]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

Welcome Cheryl!!!

So glad you found us here!! I too had quite an experience with my vet at the beginning Stood my ground, found the wonderful people here, and the rest is history

Caution....you will be overwhelmed at first! Take a deep breath and absorb all the info you can....there's alot to be had.

Congrats on the testing also! That's a major first step in handeling this

Sandy

[delta]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

Hi Cheryl, I am from Sydney and our dog was diagnosed in early March and she was hospitalized for 10 days because of a massive infection and because she had a massive hypo (low BG) episode,

In saying that she's much better now and is regulating pretty well. You can read Jessys story and many others on this forum and believe me you'll learn so much if you just keep reading, testing her BG levels and making sure she eats regularly.

If for whatever reason your dog throws up her food after having a shot of insulin, feed her immediately by force if needed (blended /liquified food obviously, not solids) or rush her to the vet. This is when our dog had her first and only (although multiple times) seizure because she threw up and we didnt realize what would happen.

I think the reason why our dog has not had any more hypo incidents and is regulating really well is because of our obsession with testing her BG levels .. we pretty much tested her every 2 hours for 4 weeks (that;s one loooooooooong curve) A lot can change in the early days especially insulin doses so don't be afraid to test. Also always have some honey on hand in case you ever notice very low BG levels eg. under 5/90) and a slice of wholemeal bread..

[Cebe]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

My vets were resistant to my home testing at first, too. I think they were afraid I would make insulin adjustments without their input and that i could really hurt my dog. I didn't. I made sure to contact them with any insulin changes and discuss it. I'm at a point now, however, where the increases I might put in place are very minor (1/2 unit) and I feel I can do that on my own ok, but that's only after nearly a year of learning about how my dog handles this disease.

So, do make sure you have a vet you can partner with, but also get yourself educated and take control of your dog's treatment, testing, etc. You can do it.

[chezz]

Re: Your dog's diet, insulin, and meter used

Hi Again everyone, I cried for two days when I got the news …. Was watching reversing diabetes in 30 days trailer … I have boy on chicken breast and shank bones turkey and salmon, I googled raw food for dingos and what dingos eat because I want to get as close to nature as I can http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingo lucky we have an organic butcher about 30 mins from where I live so I am off tomorrow to get some rabbit and kangaroo meat not sure about possum and buffalo lol )…(this hard for me because I am a vegetarian and I love all animals) I just want do this for same amount of time 30 days and see if makes any difference.

I had an OPTIUM Xceed when I had gestational diabetes but when I went to buy the strips they were $79.000 dollars and that was without the lancets The Optium Xceed also features ketone testing, providing extra reassurance for some people with diabetes and their needs.

His readings have all been above 20 and when I found this is scared me a bit http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Bl...gar_guidelines

A friend of mine has diabetes and she posted over her old Accu-Chek a box of strips and some lancets to get me started …I said to her it’s so expensive for the needles and insulin she told me to try the Aids, Drug bus because they give a box of needles for free ….

I just rang the zoo here and to my surprise the feed there dingos kibble (dog biscuits ) NOT real natural food

Anyway thanks to everyone you have all been really supportive

My Aunty just called and she said her friend had a dog with diabetes
she said her friend used to get up at 6 am wait an hour and then feed her dog ...i said thats not what my vet said she told me to feed him and then give him his insulin straight away ....WHICH ONE IS RIGHT...

[Patty]

Re: Newly diagnosed dog in Australia

As Natalie said earlier, dogs are akin to type 1 diabetes so reversing the destroyed beta cells is not an option for them. Cats on the other hand have more of a Type 2 diabetes and can be reversed.

Sounds like if the readings have all been around 20 (360s) they are fairly level which is a good thing. You want to re-evaluate for a change in insulin dose at this stage about every 5-7 days.

I am a little concerned about the diet. I'm not opposed to a raw diet as my dog is on one, but it needs to be well-balanced (particularly with regard to the meat/calcium ratio). And, carefully rotated if you are changing meat sources since this can affect the stability of blood sugar levels. Wild dogs eat the entrails and stomach contents in some cases of their prey, so they can get nutrition from vegetation, etc as well.

Also wondering if your dog is neutered as hormones can have an impact on blood sugar fluctuations.

Patty