Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

[k9diabetes]

Re: Looking for success stories

Because dogs are essentially Type 1 diabetics, diet is not truly critical to their regulation the way it might be with a Type 2 diabetic (cats are more like Type 2 diabetics).

The prescription diets work well for a lot of dogs but so do many other diets. It's a matter of balancing the way an individual dog absorbs insulin and how that dog absorbs the food given. Both vary greatly dog to dog. Sometimes a very high glucose carb is needed.

I personally am not convinced that the health of people or dogs is influenced nearly as much by diet as we (society) think it is. It is tempting to fiddle around with diet because it's one of the few things we have complete control over and so we tend to want to invest it with a great deal of power.

But for every study that comes out saying something is good for you or bad for you, there is another study saying the opposite. So the "truth" probably is best described as "we don't know."

And the diets of people who live long healthy lives run the gamut from greasy meat and potatos and pie every day (some are my relatives) to organic holistic vegans. I talked to a lady yesterday whose mother lived to be 100 years old. She said that her mother went her entire life eating whatever she wanted, rarely went to a doctor, and only occasionally took the one med she was ever prescribed, for high blood pressure.

I think genetics has a lot more to do with it than we want to think.

Short answer is that I don't think there is a diet for longevity in a dog, diabetic or otherwise, (or a human) other than one that's decent quality ingredients and covers their nutritional requirements to the best that we understand them.

Natalie

[Marie1]

Re: Looking for success stories

Thanks again everyone. That's good to know about diet not really being very important.

[Marie1]

Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

Hi, last night at 8pm I got home from work, fed Leo, gave him his insulin, then took him for a walk. He seemed perfectly fine. In fact, I remember being grateful for how lively and healthy he has been. Toward the end of the walk, around 8:30, he was trying to have a bowel movement and seemed to be stumbling or tipping. I wasn't sure what the problem was and watched him closely. It looked like his limbs weren't holding him up properly. Then I saw the tremors in his back, scooped him up, brought him inside, gave him some apricot jam and two biscuits (which he ate) and then we drove to the emergency animal hospital. By the time I got there, Leo was fine. They did bloodwork. Everything was normal except he had lower levels of potassium. His blood glucose was 90. The vets (we went again this morning to his regular vet) don't think it was a hypoglycemic incident because he did not seem lethargic beforehand or disoriented, and also because he recovered so quickly.

He looked similar to this hypoglycemic dog, but maybe all petit mal seizures look the same...

http://youtu.be/XAZxhIGNnY4

Has anyone had experiences like this? I watched him all night and all day today and he has seems normal, if a little tired. He has had both his shots. This morning, a half hour after eating and getting his shot, his blood glucose was above 300.

I really need to know if anyone has had a similar experience (seizure coming on quickly without other low glucose symptoms, with quick recovery) and whether it was hypoglycemia or epilepsy.

Thanks!

[momofdecker]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

Hi, last night at 8pm I got home from work, fed Leo, gave him his insulin, then took him for a walk. He seemed perfectly fine. In fact, I remember being grateful for how lively and healthy he has been. Toward the end of the walk, around 8:30, he was trying to have a bowel movement and seemed to be stumbling or tipping. I wasn't sure what the problem was and watched him closely. It looked like his limbs weren't holding him up properly. Then I saw the tremors in his back, scooped him up, brought him inside, gave him some apricot jam and two biscuits (which he ate) and then we drove to the emergency animal hospital. By the time I got there, Leo was fine. They did bloodwork. Everything was normal except he had lower levels of potassium. His blood glucose was 90. The vets (we went again this morning to his regular vet) don't think it was a hypoglycemic incident because he did not seem lethargic beforehand or disoriented, and also because he recovered so quickly.

He looked similar to this hypoglycemic dog, but maybe all petit mal seizures look the same...

http://youtu.be/XAZxhIGNnY4

Has anyone had experiences like this? I watched him all night and all day today and he has seems normal, if a little tired. He has had both his shots. This morning, a half hour after eating and getting his shot, his blood glucose was above 300.

I really need to know if anyone has had a similar experience (seizure coming on quickly without other low glucose symptoms, with quick recovery) and whether it was hypoglycemia or epilepsy.

Thanks!

Welcome Marie & Leo! Sounds like quite a scary evening for you. I don't have any advice related to the seizeure, however, it does seem that not all dogs exhibit the same symptoms (if any) when they are hypo. My Decker was overdosed for nearly six weeks when he was first dx. in November 2011. We would see readings of 70, 50, 25, 'LO' (under 20) on our meter (our meter does read lower than the vets but we've only tested it at a high range so not sure how far off it may be in the low range). He never exhibited signs of being hypo. We treated him w/ karo and food none the less.

For Leo's bg to be 90 after biscuits and jam, it very likely could have been lower and that lower bg may be related to the seizure. Then again, it may be one of those things you never truly know what happened!

Are you testing at home? Is above 300 a typical number for the timing of the bg test? If it is higher than nor mal, it may be another indicator that he may have had a hypo incident.

Good news is that he is okay and that you managed the incident well, regardless of the cause! Good for you for being so responsive - Leo is lucky to have you!

Any other information you can share, weight of your dog, feeding info., insulin type and amount given, etc... The more you can post here, the more feedback others can share.

Holli

[eileen]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

. The vets (we went again this morning to his regular vet) don't think it was a hypoglycemic incident because he did not seem lethargic beforehand or disoriented, and also because he recovered so quickly.

Thanks!

Welcome Marie,

Some diabetic dogs, my Mildred being one, can appear perfectly fine up to the time they drop into seizures from low blood sugar. One can not always go by appearance or by lack of the typical hypoglycemic symptoms.

The sugar from the jam could have been all that was needed to bring your boy's blood sugar back up to a range where he was able to pull thru.
With a reading of 90 after this jam and biscuit it is very likely his glucose had been lower which showed by the trembling.

[Marie1]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

Thanks, Holli!

Leo has lost a little more weight and is now 17.2 lbs. I don't think I want him to get much lower, so tonight I increased his food a bit. He's the size of an American Eskimo, even though he is a Pom. He is fed Kirkland Senior premium dog food and his insulin is humulin n. He gets 4 units twice a day. I haven't been testing him at home, but we've done a few glucose curves and 300 in the morning is "normal". We're going to do another glucose curve soon and at that point I'll calibrate the meter I have.

I'm nervous about leaving him alone while I'm at work...

[Marie1]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

Eileen, thank you so much! From what I'd read, I thought that lethargy was the first sign of hypoglycemia, so I had been on the lookout for that. It's useful to know about Mildred's experience. Thanks again!

[Patty]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

I agree that after 2 biscuits and jam and a reading of only 90 once at the ER, he likely had a hypo incident. Especially since exercise can drop blood sugar dramatically in some dogs.

The dog in the video looks like he needs some honey or syrup ASAP. I would take some form of readily available glucose on your walks with you when you go.

A reading of 300 the next day is not that atypical. Hypoglycemic seizures can cause a release of stored glucose and other hormones meant to protect the body and raise blood sugar.

Do you home test? If not, it might be worth it to see how Leo's blood sugar is affected by exerice.

[Patty]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

I just found your previous thread and merged the two for more information

[Marie1]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

So, if it can be established that other symptoms of hypoglycemia are not always present, then I can lean toward believing that this was in fact a diabetic incident and not epilepsy (unfortunately). If this is the case, is there anything I could have/should have done differently?

When I got home at 8, he had not eaten in 12 hours. He's a good eater, so eats his food right away. Then I give him his shot, and a carrot as a treat. Then the walk. This is something I've done before with minor variations. Sometimes we go for a walk first. Sometimes we eat, then walk, then I give him his shot.

[Marie1]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

Thanks, Patty! That's a good idea about taking things on walks. Do you have any thoughts on what I might do in the morning to ensure this doesn't happen while I am at work?

I haven't started testing him at home, but I will be.

[Patty]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

I would consider the stumbling, tipping, tremors typical hypo symptoms. At this point I would give some honey, karo syrup, or pancake syrup followed by some food or biscuit for long lasting effect.

Do you have some of Leo's curves from the vet you could post? If not, I would get a copy of them. Without knowing Leo's low point, I can't really comment on the timing of exercise.

Consistency is really key though. Some dogs drop quite dramatically when insulin is active. But timing varies from dog to dog and how much they can drop for how much exercise.

If I walk my dog at the end of her 12 hour cycle, there's much less impact of blood sugar than walking soon after her shot (can drop over 100 points). But another dog with a mountain type curve might rise right after insulin and drop and the end of the 12 hour cycle. So you can see how guessing the timing without knowing the blood sugar curve can be problematic.

Glad you gave the jam and biscuits! Leo's lucky you were so observant

[Patty]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

You could always cut back 1/2 unit or so until the next curve if you're worried while away during the day.

[jesse girl]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

jesse has seizures outside of diabetes she has epilepsy and has had it all her life

i do try to test her at onset of a seizure to determine if it is not low blood sugar sometimes there is just no time and i have treat as low blood sugar

i rub karo on her inner lip until symptoms have subsided once that has happened i may give her another teaspoon of karo that she can lick off the spoon and maybe a snack it all depends where her numbers are to determine how much i want to intervene

you must be careful rubbing sugar on the inner lips they can have lock jaw and you dont want your fingers on the wrong side of that dont matter what size the dog is

jesses epilepsy seizure may be triggered by rapidly dropping blood sugar stress can be a trigger but cant know for sure

i agree with patty that its more than likely a low blood sugar event unless you have seen a history of epilepsy in your baby

the exercise more than likely caused the extra drop in blood sugar it may have not occurred at all if exercise did not happen but once again we can not be absolutely positive so you do need to be careful when going for walks stay close to home and carry liquid sugar with you at all times

[Shellie]

Re: Leo had a seizure and I need advice!

Eileen, thank you so much! From what I'd read, I thought that lethargy was the first sign of hypoglycemia, so I had been on the lookout for that. It's useful to know about Mildred's experience. Thanks again!

Hank has never had a seizure HOWEVER we've been really low twice and not one symptom! No lethargy, no shaking..nothing. In fact, he looked at me like I was nuts as I started to cram karo and granola into him. He was happy to get a snack and had no idea why on earth I was doing it but why look a gift horse in the mouth! lol But seriously...here's another dog that shows no symptoms even as low as 30. Glad Leo is ok! Hugs!